Hired by TSA

The lack of post-training marketability (in the event of a no-hire situation) is what kept me from going DT - instead I am going CFI-MEI-CFII-Jet Center-ATP. Dumping 22.5K (and that's just the net program cost, not including living expenses) with no guarantee of a job, and no guarantee that the airline won't "Dixie Chick" the program right in the middle of things was a gamble I wasn't willing to take. There are risks with everything, but there is much less risk imho going the CFI route, as FBO's are always looking for CFI's. I guess my confidence was shaken after what happened with ASA. I feel just awful for the students who had to go through that; especially Badco. He had just passed his checkride when they termed the program :( I think it's nice that ATP offers a "guarantee" of sorts in the form of cash back if you don't get hired, at least that makes it easier for candidates to take the plunge as opposed to ALL of the risk being on the student.

My .02
 
"ATP offers a "guarantee" of sorts in the form of cash back if you don't get hired"

There's gotta be some serious fine print in that contract...
 
The lack of post-training marketability (in the event of a no-hire situation) is what kept me from going DT - instead I am going CFI-MEI-CFII-Jet Center-ATP.
What is 'Jet Center-ATP'? Are you at FlightSafety and planning on going to a learing center? Or is 'Jet Center' something else, and by ATP do you mean you plan on getting your ATP or going through ATP's jet transition program? If you are at FSI, by all means go to a center. If you do, there is no reason to go to ATP's program. If you get your ATP and a type rating by doing the internship, the average starting salary for an FO is probably around $40k with benefits, and it goes up from there. I did significantly better on the salary, but don't get any benefits.
 
The lack of post-training marketability (in the event of a no-hire situation) is what kept me from going DT - instead I am going CFI-MEI-CFII-Jet Center-ATP. Dumping 22.5K (and that's just the net program cost, not including living expenses) with no guarantee of a job, and no guarantee that the airline won't "Dixie Chick" the program right in the middle of things was a gamble I wasn't willing to take. There are risks with everything, but there is much less risk imho going the CFI route, as FBO's are always looking for CFI's. I guess my confidence was shaken after what happened with ASA. I feel just awful for the students who had to go through that; especially Badco. He had just passed his checkride when they termed the program :( I think it's nice that ATP offers a "guarantee" of sorts in the form of cash back if you don't get hired, at least that makes it easier for candidates to take the plunge as opposed to ALL of the risk being on the student.

My .02



ASA has stopped hiring, and are not running classes, true.

Once they do, Badco will get a class date. Whether he accepts it or not is up to him.



Dumping 22.5K (and that's just the net program cost, not including living expenses) with no guarantee of a job, and no guarantee that the airline won't "Dixie Chick" the program right in the middle of things was a gamble I wasn't willing to take.

Badco is guranteed a job... he'll get it once classes start. And let's be real, so as long as Delta is around, so will ASA.

Direct Track has you interview upfront and get hired. Granted, if the airline stops hiring, then you will have to wait a while til classes start again. I asked FSA about how many people that did Direct Track, didn't get hired on after phase IV ?

FSA said there were only two, and one of them already went to another regional airline... so the other being Badco.

I don't see how this is any "riskier" than the CFI looking for work.

I know a CFI, very nice guy, upstanding, clean history, no failed checkrides, everything is great about him... has about 1000 hours total, 110 ME.

His application is in with every regional airline you can name... and he has no interviews!!! It's been a few months now.

Risk is everywhere, no matter what route you go.
 
This is another good reason not to do direct track.

I was not aware that FSA had a direct track set up with TSA.... I guess they do now...

My friend was just furloughed from TSA. He instructed at FSA until his hire date.... Now, he is back at FSA instructing contract students again...

ILS
 
"I was already to pay 22,500 for a right seat in an RJ, then got shafted"

How does FSA allow direct track folks to be "shafted". I guess I don't understand the process. Are you talking about if the airline you signed up for stops hiring?

The process....

1. First you have to qualify (ie. have completed training at FSA or be screened coming in)

2. Interview with the airline and recieve a conditional offer of employment (COE)

3. Ground school on the systems etc...


4. Do 30 hours of advanced instrument training/airline procedures in the Seminole and 36 hours of the same in the ERJ level D.

5. Checkride time with a checkairmen from the airline

6. Go to indoc at the airline after passing the checkride

Step 6 is where you could possibly get screwed..... If the airline furloughs and stops hiring before you get there then you will wait until they hire and start ground schools again. in the mean time FSA will allow you so many hours in the ERJ SIM each month to stay proficient. never the less, you will wait.

I guess you could do your CFI ratings for a back up while waiting for ground school.

Hope this helps....

ILS
 
Well, okay.

Does FSA provide any monetary compensation if you don't get hired? Should they?

They should, considering that even a scumbag operation like Gulfstream Training Academy gives you $5,000 back if you don't get a first officer job within 6 months of graduating.
 
Well, okay.

Does FSA provide any monetary compensation if you don't get hired? Should they?

No, they held up their end of the bargain. You either got your shot and blew it, or the reality of the world bit your ass when the airline slowed down/furloughed/etc. That's not something that FlightSafety has any control over.

That's the exact reason I encouraged all of my students to consider that possible outcome when they were considering the program (and pretty much all of them did consider it at one point or another). Say you do get put into a pool or worse; furloughed. What do you do then. You're just a guy with a few hundred hours who has the ability to operate an FMS... Can you afford that? Do you want to take that gamble?

The airlines that participate in the direct tracks, with the possible exception of Eagle (and they have their own problems), are all teetering on the verge of slowdowns and furloughs. I know that the urge to move on to the next level is strong, but you have to try and not put all of your eggs into one basket. Otherwise you may be very sorry, and broke.

When you interview for a position with an airline, they typically look at a few things:

Flight History
Total Time/Multi/Instrument/Ratings and Certificates/Accidents/Violations/DUI/Certificate Actions

Technical Knowledge
Usually the last airplane you flew, can you describe the systems in detail?

IFR Knowledge
They point to something on a chart and you'd better know what it is. IFR rules, can you takeoff?, do you need an alternate?, etc.

Personality
All throughout the interview they are gauging what kind of person you are. Are you aggressive? Overly aggressive? Passive? Nice? Mean? You get the point. Do they think that you could function in a crew environment for four days at a time? A month?

All of these things can be seriously improved through instruction. Having the CFI shows that you have the ability to work with others (i.e., CRM). When you become a CFII, you learn so much more about instrument flying than you did as a student. You really do expand your knowledge through teaching.

I've heard the argument, "How much can I learn watching somebody do turns around a point?", and I'll concede that the actual task of watching somebody do a turn around a point doesn't hold much value, but everything that you did up to that maneuver carries an intangible value that is difficult to quantify.

Every ILS that you observe being butchered further strengthens your knowledge and skill base whether you think it will or not.

That being said, if you really don't think that you would be able to give the effort that it requires, then don't be a CFI. Nobody deserves an instructor who doesn't care about their job. But, I would encourage you to think about your decision and consider what a (good) captain does. They teach. Is it a challenge? He!! yeah. But most things in aviation are, that's why we do them right?

Anyway, good luck what ever you decide.

PS. Early on I didn't think that I would like instructing either, but as I moved through my certificates and ratings I realized that it could be a very rewarding experience and a chance to gain more experience (and get paid!) without more outlay of cash. I would only like to apologize to my first few students when I was getting my mojo appropriately adjusted... :)
 
I was just looking into this very topic...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=29430

Direct Track is the fastest way to debt ($22,500 @ FlightSafety + books, etc.)

I'm so glad I got my CFI instead...Thanks in part to DE727

I think DE727 has opened another account on JC. This "new" guy patts him on the a$$ a little too much.

Well DE, thats one way to get people to side with you. Create another account and side with yourself....LOL

Thats awesome...

ILS
 
That's the exact reason I encouraged all of my students to consider that possible outcome when they were considering the program (and pretty much all of them did consider it at one point or another). Say you do get put into a pool or worse; furloughed. What do you do then. You're just a guy with a few hundred hours who has the ability to operate an FMS... Can you afford that? Do you want to take that gamble?

The airlines that participate in the direct tracks, with the possible exception of Eagle (and they have their own problems), are all teetering on the verge of slowdowns and furloughs. I know that the urge to move on to the next level is strong, but you have to try and not put all of your eggs into one basket. Otherwise you may be very sorry, and broke.


Very true indeed. Good post

You should help educate your students, so they can make the decision that is right for them. I personally completed my CFI/CFII/and MEI when I was signed up for the ASA program. First, I knew that completing the them would only help me with the transition to ASA. Second, for a back up plan. I knew that it would cost more $$$ but it was very much worth it.

I have some friends who completed the ASA program in 2000-2001 after their CIME. They are all still with ASA and did very well even at low time. Yes DE, I said "low time"...LOL. At least they have a good seniority number now...


A person can be a great pilot but a not so good instructor. Direct track is better for some than others. It depends solely on the individual.

ILS
 
I think DE727 has opened another account on JC. This "new" guy patts him on the a$$ a little too much.

Well DE, thats one way to get people to side with you. Create another account and side with yourself....LOL

Thats awesome...

ILS
Point #1, we don't approve of "aliases" here, and make a concerted effort to eliminate them when we find them.

Point #2, we don't much care for personal attacks here, and that post comes pretty darn close. Don't cross that line.

:mad:
 
Point #1, we don't approve of "aliases" here, and make a concerted effort to eliminate them when we find them.

Point #2, we don't much care for personal attacks here, and that post comes pretty darn close. Don't cross that line.

:mad:

1.) That wasn't a personal attack. There was some sarcasm there...

2.) It isn't the first time someone on this board has called out another member for using an "aliase" here and I am certain it won't be the last....

3.) Relax, it is all in good fun and humor. Besides, I love DE, I really do....

ILS
 
"I think DE727 has opened another account on JC."

You can't really do that without getting caught. It's a mod thing, but trust me...

"Point #2, we don't much care for personal attacks here, and that post comes pretty darn close. Don't cross that line"

Don't worry about it. ILS's posting history and career progression can be seen by all. He's more of a threat to FSA than I am...
 
"Don't worry about it. ILS's posting history and career progression can be seen by all. He's more of a threat to FSA than I am...

Thats a good one. My posting history is just fine. yeah, I'm sure FSA complains every time a new student walks through the door that I sent them. Of course, if everyone were smart they would listen to you because you are so wise. Every new student should train at mom and pop FBO's and avoid well put together advanced airline training programs because DE the god of aviation said so....

As far as careers go, mine is right where I want it. Gee, I don't know, continue making great money, see my wife and daughter every day or go fly for a regional making in a year what I almost make in a month, never see my family, and pray daily that I don't get furloughed? Tough decision...

If I want to return to flying full time, all I have to do is make a phone call. It really is funny when you try to throw me under the bus because I choose not to fly for the regionals at this time in my life. Like it makes me any less of a pilot.

Don't be so quick to throw people under the bus for making career changes away from aviation. Your earning potential has a very definite cap on it. Mine does not, and it already exceeds what you will make as a senior capt with UPS. I think that making a career change that will bring home a very healthy income for your family demands some respect, don't you?

When the aviation industry stabilizes and the pilots can actually support their families without forced consessions and the constant fear of furloughs, I will consider the career again.

BTW.... as far as you being a threat to FSA, keep trying, I am sure you are making headway in bringing down the #1 flight training organization in the world....


ILS
 
Thats a good one. My posting history is just fine. yeah, I'm sure FSA complains every time a new student walks through the door that I sent them. Of course, if everyone were smart they would listen to you because you are so wise. Every new student should train at mom and pop FBO's and avoid well put together advanced airline training programs because DE the god of aviation said so....

As far as careers go, mine is right where I want it. Gee, I don't know, continue making great money, see my wife and daughter every day or go fly for a regional making in a year what I almost make in a month, never see my family, and pray daily that I don't get furloughed? Tough decision...

If I want to return to flying full time, all I have to do is make a phone call. It really is funny when you try to throw me under the bus because I choose not to fly for the regionals at this time in my life. Like it makes me any less of a pilot.

Don't be so quick to throw people under the bus for making career changes away from aviation. Your earning potential has a very definite cap on it. Mine does not, and it already exceeds what you will make as a senior capt with UPS. I think that making a career change that will bring home a very healthy income for your family demands some respect, don't you?

When the aviation industry stabilizes and the pilots can actually support their families without forced consessions and the constant fear of furloughs, I will consider the career again.

BTW.... as far as you being a threat to FSA, keep trying, I am sure you are making headway in bringing down the #1 flight training organization in the world....


ILS


Just Curious, what is it that you do now for a career?
 
Just Curious, what is it that you do now for a career?

Mortgage broker. I also remodel homes and sell them. It wasn't my calling, but it is working out rather well. Doesn't mean I don't think about flying every day. Things happen for a reason I guess....

There is good money to be made in finance. I got two of my friends who currently fly for Pinnacle and ASA into mortgage. They have made an extra $8,000 to $12,000 on a good month. Not bad for a part time job on the side to suppliment the lack of regional pay....

ILS
 
CLR4ILS,

Were you a direct tracker at FSA, or an instructor, or what? How far in aviation did you go before switching over to mortgage brokering ?
 
CLR4ILS,

Were you a direct tracker at FSA, or an instructor, or what? How far in aviation did you go before switching over to mortgage brokering ?

Instructor, waited for ASA program because I wanted to fly out of Dallas so my wife could attend Baylor University for dental school. Ended up instructing here in Scottsdale for Sabena Airlines and then left when my daughter was sick with extreme namonia (spell check please). After a month in the hospital and surgery on her lungs I was supposed to return to Sabena but they lost their next two classes from Belgium which only come every six months. Got into mortgage, made enough to pay off the student loans, buy my first remodel, and haven't flown much other than to keep my instructor ratings and instrument currency.

I look at it like this.... I can return to the airline lifestyle and scrape by for several years fying really nice aircraft which is probably the the best job in the world, or I can continue with finance, open my own company in 6-12 months and make enough to buy any light twin or light jet I want.

Who knows.... I just know flying is a passion that will not pay for my families needs, and finance does...

ILS
 
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