Using training time to count toward 50 hrs. XC PIC

T

turbojet28

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone,

I've got a little bit of an elementary question here, but I just want some confirmation here. I recently switched my college major and am now flying again at my local FBO. After starting my instrument training in the university's 141 program, I find myself now switching back to part 61. Along with that comes the req. for 50 hrs. of cross country PIC time. Since I don't have that fulfilled yet, am I allowed to do my IFR training under the hood with my CFII on cross country flights and have those XC hours count toward the 50? Obviously I can log it as PIC since I am rated in the aircraft and am the sole manipulator of the controls, but I am just wondering if that is "kosher" to use toward the 50? Thanks a lot!

Joel
 
hmm. . . I think you can. :confused:

I can't quote the reg's as well as many others here, but I'm pretty sure that this type of work is "kosher."
 
Yes, they count. And don't forget that your solo x-c time as a student pilot also counts, since you were PIC at that time.

Mike
 
Thanks guys. That's what I thought to be true. Just making sure. Also, does it still count if you are in actual IMC with the CFII?
 
Well, as long as your destination is 50 NM or more from your departure point. That would count toward X-C time. However, I am not really sure about PIC time though.


adreamer
 
adreamer said:
Well, as long as your destination is 50 NM or more from your departure point. That would count toward X-C time. However, I am not really sure about PIC time though.


adreamer
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I don't know where this keeps coming from but a xc flight doesn't have any distance requirements. Merely land at different airport and come back, then its XC.
 
Did you see he was going for an instrument rating?

FAR 61.1

(3) Cross-country time means--
[(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during a flight--]
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
[(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under Sec. 61.101(c), time acquired during a flight--]
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I don't know where this keeps coming from but a xc flight doesn't have any distance requirements. Merely land at different airport and come back, then its XC.
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If it's for a license or rating it has to be 50n.m. Check out 61.1 (3)(ii)(B)

I looked around for a while under instrument requirements and it is definitely NOT there, but it IS under Applicability and Definitions.

I need to look up the part about logging the time you were talking about. I'm pretty sure you can't log "Dual Received" AND "PIC" even if you are rated in the a/c, but I'll have to look it up to be 100%.:)
 
ChinookDriver said:
Did you see he was going for an instrument rating?

FAR 61.1

(3) Cross-country time means--
[(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during a flight--]
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
[(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under Sec. 61.101(c), time acquired during a flight--]
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
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Dude I had the FAR/AIM and the "post reply" thing open at the same time. You beat me to it punk!!!!!
 
deserteaglle said:
Dude I had the FAR/AIM and the "post reply" thing open at the same time. You beat me to it punk!!!!!
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simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg
 
deserteaglle said:
I'm pretty sure you can't log "Dual Received" AND "PIC" even if you are rated in the a/c, but I'll have to look it up to be 100%.:)
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Sure you can.

Appropriately rated and sole manipulator.

There's like a zillion threads about this. (Not being a smart ass... just saying...)
 
ChinookDriver said:
Sure you can.

Appropriately rated and sole manipulator.

There's like a zillion threads about this. (Not being a smart ass... just saying...)
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanna know where to find it. It got me to thinking though that when you're with the instructor for your inst. you really don't have to log it as dual recieved at all as long as you have the 15 necessary hours with the instructor. You could just log it as PIC right?

BTW, HAHA right back atcha brutha.:cwm27:
 
deserteaglle said:
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanna know where to find it. It got me to thinking though that when you're with the instructor for your inst. you really don't have to log it as dual recieved at all as long as you have the 15 necessary hours with the instructor. You could just log it as PIC right?

BTW, HAHA right back atcha brutha.:cwm27:
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you can find it in 61.51, under the section about logging PIC. You need category and class ratings to log PIC. Nowhere does it mention endorsements or conditions of flight, there is nothing "extra" to find.

If you can log PIC outside of a cloud you can log it inside too, same reg.

As for the II instruction question, sure you dont have to log the dual but i'd think the instructor would want you to log it and have him sign it so his PIC as flight instructor in his logbook matches up to yours. I know i would.
 
Ok, looked it up and don't see where it says you CAN'T log it as PIC time.

61.51(e)(1)

I don't see why not, just sounded weird I guess.
 
casey said:
you can find it in 61.51, under the section about logging PIC. You need category and class ratings to log PIC. Nowhere does it mention endorsements or conditions of flight, there is nothing "extra" to find.

If you can log PIC outside of a cloud you can log it inside too, same reg.

As for the II instruction question, sure you dont have to log the dual but i'd think the instructor would want you to log it and have him sign it so his PIC as flight instructor in his logbook matches up to yours. I know i would.
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You beat me to it too. I was less than a minute behind you.

Didn't think about that second part either.
 
isn't the 50XC hours just the schools rule? or is that an actual 'law?' i know in some schools you dont need that. some just want to see that your know what you are doing... i guess.
 
aviatorrbt said:
isn't the 50XC hours just the schools rule? or is that an actual 'law?' i know in some schools you dont need that. some just want to see that your know what you are doing... i guess.
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WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?! You have got to be kidding me.lol

Three people just wrote exactly where to find the regulation stating that 50 hours of cross-country time (To an airport 50 n.m. from the dep. airport ;) is necessary for the instrument if you're doing it part 61.

Different regs for 141, but when doing part 61, YES it is a requirement and not a "rule" of the school.
 
turbojet28 said:
Hello everyone,

I've got a little bit of an elementary question here, but I just want some confirmation here. I recently switched my college major and am now flying again at my local FBO. After starting my instrument training in the university's 141 program, I find myself now switching back to part 61. Along with that comes the req. for 50 hrs. of cross country PIC time. Since I don't have that fulfilled yet, am I allowed to do my IFR training under the hood with my CFII on cross country flights and have those XC hours count toward the 50? Obviously I can log it as PIC since I am rated in the aircraft and am the sole manipulator of the controls, but I am just wondering if that is "kosher" to use toward the 50? Thanks a lot!

Joel
Click to expand...
I sure hope so cause a large percentage of my 50 was instrument training.
 
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