Airline Transition Program

Believe it or not... I agree with you. Take out the "having to be paid" part though. In my "short story" about "Chuck"... he built his time flying himself and his family around. Do you think he will have made better decisions with his family directly involved... or 50 strangers?

robair73 said:
HBO Zone has a nice skin flick on!
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No cable... doh! ;)
 
I don't know about "Chuck". I didn't read it. Really, check out HBO Zone. They didn't waste any time.
 
"I just wish I knew where the line was drawn between "ranting" and "debating"?"

I think I'm accused of being an "old ranter" far too often at JC. Nothing wrong with ranting as long as it's respectful and honest. It's simply telling it like it is from your perspective from where you stand. Would I be honest if I sugar coat things? (though Meritflyer's friends would think I'm less mean).

A debate ensues when someone disagrees with you. As long as it's respectful, more power to it.

By the way Bob, I thought you were a Capt at XJT for quite a while. Your profile set me straight.
 
mcamtb said:
I was looking at ATP's "Airline Hiring and Placements," and there was someone who started in Feb. 06 and did the Private and ACPP, then went on to doing the Airline Transition Program. After completing everything, it looks like; he was immediately hired by Pinnacle. Is this a pretty common result after completing the Airline Transition Program? At first, I didn't even think twice about attending it. I just determined it probably wouldn't be worth the extra $25000. But, that’s pretty tempting going from no experience to working for a regional in 6 months. So, do you think by attending that program it gives you a better chance of getting hired?
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Does its give you a better chance? absolutely YES!!! your chances of being hired at 400 hours by going through ATPs prorgams increases exponentially than as if you just got ur ratings somewhere and applied to any regional airline with only 400 hours. No airline would even consider you at that low time level. with that being said.....

mcamtb said:
Especially, being fresh out of flight school with (what I'm guessing) only about 400-500 hours under your belt. Is the program worth, the cost?
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Is the airline transistion program worth it?? I say an emphatic NO!!! "that guy" also paid ATP $80,000!! if he came froma rich family thats fine. but if he had to pull a loan? thats gotta be like a 7-800 dollar loan payment for 20 years.
 
Captain_Bob said:
What is $25,000 now in the grand scheme of a 20-30 year career. If it works for you and you are the type of person that can truly learn and gain from it... then it means an extra year or two or three at the high end of your payscale before you turn 60. What's that price in today's dollars? Maybe 100k/year? Maybe 200k/year? More? Who knows. That's the rosy picture... the flipside is... it could all tank on us tomorrow and we're all flipping burgers to scrape by.

Bob
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Thats ATP marketing at its Finest. We all know that ATP emphasized, SENIORTY MEANS EVERYTHING, GET THERE FIRST.........what if he gets furloughed, loses his license, medical, fired? now he's got an astronomical loan payment, which would be hard enough to pay everymonth on a regional airline paycheck, let alone if he lost his job.
 
mcamtb said:
Haha. I guess for someone like me (with zero experience and just getting ready to start my training), it 'sounds' tempting. But, yea, I see exactly what you're saying. I personally, would rather fly/instruct and try to get as much experience and hours as I could. So that one day (hopefully) when I'm F/O for an airline, I know that I have paid my dues, flown my hours, and have a good deal of experience under me, so that I feel like I have earned my seat and know that my passengers can feel safe being in my hands. Rather than pay $25000, to be allowed to have 'lowered' hiring standards and almost (from what it sounds like), buy your place at an airline. I have no intentions of attending the "Airline Transition Program." I was just shocked when I saw what I did, on ATP's site, and was more or less curious to see what you guys thought.
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Thats the right way to think there. When I was *real* low time (I'm still low time), I thought about the fastest way to get there, thankfully I have a mentor who is much wiser then my years who is already a Captain at a Major. He sold me on the fact that becoming a CFI is the best route. Not for all, but you need the experience somehow. I thought I was ready for an airline job at 250TT, let me tell you, I was a fool. I've got almost double that now, and seeing how far I've come from that 250 mark, not just in skill and knowledge but also in confidence. I realize that you really can't *replace* the experience you get as a CFI by *buying* your time for a job. Fly an airplane on a ILS down to mins with a student who suddenly decides to freeze on the controls with both needles half deflected and now you're in a fight for your life over the controls to somehow manage to get it back just to arrive at DA only to see the approach lights - *buying* time, won't give you that experience. And let me tell you, I'm glad it happened. It taught me a thing or two about flying and scared the hell out of me. How does that relate? While it might not be a senario I'll find at an airline job, its just one more "event" that I experienced that not only raised my confidence as a pilot, but also taught me that you always have to be at your best everytime you fly.

DE727UPS said:
(with all due respect to F/O Bob, of course)
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I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and where you are as a professional, so of course I always enjoy reading your advice. But don't you think thats a little....I don't know....rude? Bob is always quite the gentlemen when he debates, but I think that was kind a low blow and a dig at him. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Robair73, your avatar rocks. :rawk:
 
blee256 said:
...what if he gets furloughed, loses his license, medical, fired? now he's got an astronomical loan payment, which would be hard enough to pay everymonth on a regional airline paycheck, let alone if he lost his job.
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That's why I gave the "Flipside"... ;)

We all know that there is risk involved in this career. For some of us it's still hard to accommodate that risk. For other's it's just something we live with and don't let it "get" to us. Regardless... whether you spent 4 years of your life in a low paying instruction job working your but off and sacrificing your personal life to get where you are... or you spent 6 months in an immersion program... The risk never goes away.

Bob
 
Yeah. Maybe. I don't mean it as rude, though I did think he was a Capt for a while. His status also plays a part our ongoing discussions about low time ATP guys as I'd like to see his opinion when he is a Capt at XJT and has to fly with them. Personally, I wouldn't call myself Capt Don unless I was a Capt, but that's just me. It's no big deal.

If I was being rude, I'd use Caps all the time, or say something like "I'm throwing out the BS flag", or use personal attacks. These are things I see all the time at this site and it makes me cringe. However, I can see how calling Capt Bob an F/O could been seen as rude. I apologise Bob, if you were offended.
 
DE727UPS said:
However, I can see how calling Capt Bob an F/O could been seen as rude. I apologise Bob, if you were offended.
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That's Humor right... I get it. ;)

Not offended Don... but based on your remark... I did want to clarify earlier.

I never picked the name out of malice or with the intention of deception. In fact... if you really want the whole story... here it is.

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=99995&highlight=mother#post99995

Corny? Most likely. Pretentious? Never intended it to be, and hopefully my actions and words have shown that. This is a message board after all with names that are far more unique, interesting, and deceiving than my own.

On the whole though... I truly believe you Don that my perspective will most likely change a bit as I upgrade. Can't say how much and to what extent... because I'm typically a glass is half full type of guy and I'm expecting more work on my part dealing with folks in the right seat who have issues... whether they had 500 or 2500 hours prior.

Until then... my perspective is that of a senior FO who has been extremely lucky in his choices for flight school and 121 employment. :)

Bob
 
DE727UPS said:
However, I can see how calling Capt Bob an F/O could been seen as rude. I apologise Bob, if you were offended.
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I didn't think you were using it as a personal attack. On message boards you can read what someone types two ways:

1. The way it was written
or
2. The way you think it was written

:)
 
Captain_Bob said:
That's why I gave the "Flipside"... ;)

We all know that there is risk involved in this career. For some of us it's still hard to accommodate that risk. For other's it's just something we live with and don't let it "get" to us. Regardless... whether you spent 4 years of your life in a low paying instruction job working your but off and sacrificing your personal life to get where you are... or you spent 6 months in an immersion program... The risk never goes away.

Bob
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I know, i just wanted to give a more detailed flipside. on your post it was one liner, while the pro-side of getting there first was a bit lengthier


"Personally, I wouldn't call myself Capt Don unless I was a Capt, but that's just me. It's no big deal."

I can see that, but there are a handful on this site that are CaptXXX, captmatt, therey are a couple captchris', etc... I think the ones with capt in there name got on this before they even had a single hour in a plane. its just a name they thought was creative. I dont think a single one of them picked it to be deceitful.
 
"I can see that, but there are a handful on this site that are CaptXXX, captmatt, therey are a couple captchris', etc...'

I know. I'm 99.9 percent more old school than anyone on this board but I still wouldn't call myself Capt anything tell I was a Capt. Just a holdover from the 80's.
 
DE727UPS said:
Just a holdover from the 80's.
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Yeah... there's lots of good things left over from the 80's...

1980s-KW.jpg


1980s_navy_spot_blazer.jpg



;)
 
But what if you're not a Low time pilot and you wanted
to use the ATP's Airline Transition Program to build
multi engine time and flight experence to accelerate your
career?
 
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