Airline Transition Program

M

mcamtb

Well-Known Member
I was looking at ATP's "Airline Hiring and Placements," and there was someone who started in Feb. 06 and did the Private and ACPP, then went on to doing the Airline Transition Program. After completing everything, it looks like; he was immediately hired by Pinnacle. Is this a pretty common result after completing the Airline Transition Program? At first, I didn't even think twice about attending it. I just determined it probably wouldn't be worth the extra $25000. But, that’s pretty tempting going from no experience to working for a regional in 6 months. So, do you think by attending that program it gives you a better chance of getting hired? Especially, being fresh out of flight school with (what I'm guessing) only about 400-500 hours under your belt. Is the program worth, the cost?
 
Go ahead fork it over. Why not? What the hay. Go fly around in a diamond for a couple of months then hop in a CRJ. Have a blast!
 
"that’s pretty tempting going from no experience to working for a regional in 6 months."

With all due respect, this should be illegal....

Plus, in spite of the ATP ads, most of those guys didn't REALLY get hired at Pinnacle since Pinnacle stopped HIRING. I guess it depends on how you look at it but I tend to think "hired" means I'm drawing a paycheck. Capt Bob will tell you being in the pool = being hired (with all due respect to F/O Bob, of course). Think that being in a pool pays the bills? You tell me? It's good enough for ATP propaganda, though.

"Especially, being fresh out of flight school with (what I'm guessing) only about 400-500 hours under your belt. Is the program worth, the cost?"

I don't think it's worth the cost to put F/O's with this kind of background into a passenger jet cockpit. The cost to the Capt you're flying with can't be measured in dollars and cents.

Sorry to be so mean and direct with my post. Meritflyer would say I'm scaring away his friends by not being nice.

But I really, really.....REALLY, don't think zero to hero in six month guys belong in an RJ cockpit. No matter what it costs.
 
DE727UPS said:
"that’s pretty tempting going from no experience to working for a regional in 6 months."

With all due respect, this should be illegal....
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Haha. I guess for someone like me (with zero experience and just getting ready to start my training), it 'sounds' tempting. But, yea, I see exactly what you're saying. I personally, would rather fly/instruct and try to get as much experience and hours as I could. So that one day (hopefully) when I'm F/O for an airline, I know that I have paid my dues, flown my hours, and have a good deal of experience under me, so that I feel like I have earned my seat and know that my passengers can feel safe being in my hands. Rather than pay $25000, to be allowed to have 'lowered' hiring standards and almost (from what it sounds like), buy your place at an airline. I have no intentions of attending the "Airline Transition Program." I was just shocked when I saw what I did, on ATP's site, and was more or less curious to see what you guys thought.
 
DE727UPS said:
Plus, in spite of the ATP ads, most of those guys didn't REALLY get hired at Pinnacle since Pinnacle stopped HIRING. I guess it depends on how you look at it but I tend to think "hired" means I'm drawing a paycheck. Capt Bob will tell you being in the pool = being hired (with all due respect to F/O Bob, of course). Think that being in a pool pays the bills? You tell me? It's good enough for ATP propaganda, though.
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Don, Look... I know everyone thinks I'm all into ATP's marketing hype...

The truth is... I researched a BUNCH of schools and FBO's... I felt ATP was the right school "for me"... I went to the school... I learned a lot... I'm still learning more thanks to the awesome foundation I received there... and I tell people about my experience. Simple as that. I argue the benefits of their program while others argue the opposite. I also continue to say... it's not for everyone, and for folks to reserch the he** out of all schools. It's simply good spirited discussion & debate, and in a way I'm just... rooting for my "alma mater"... whether they are winning the game or not. (Reference Frog_Flyer's PM to me just now about how the Frogs are beating TTU!) ;)

My arguement to the "Hired" issue stems around this... Whenever folks have come on here and made an announcement in the "Member's Announcements" section that they were "Hired in to the Pool" at XYZ airlines... everyones post after that was... "Awesome! What were your times? Congratulations! What will you be flying? Outfriggin'standing!" etc...

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=422371&highlight=pool#post422371

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21129&highlight=pool

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19348&highlight=pool

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18405&highlight=pool

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17927&highlight=pool

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16012&highlight=pool

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11196&highlight=pool

Not a single post I could find said... "Ummm... dude... you're not really "Hired"... so... settle down there a bit hoss."

Why the double standard? That's where my arguement lies. I've been hired at jobs before where I didn't start until the project started in over two months... I was still made the job offer... I wasn't getting paid... but I was still "hired". The short version of that is coming home from a job interview where you start in 2 to 3 weeks after giving notice to your employer... You aren't getting a paycheck for that new job yet... but... you were "hired".

Also.. on the whole F/O - CaptainBob thing... I've never... not once... ever represented myself as an airline captain in my threads... that name was simply conceived out of a pure lack of creativity ;) when I signed on here as a PPL several years ago. I'm certain just about everyone on here knows that, and I've always been forthright in my profile about my current position in the aviation community. However, I just want to make that clear.

Thanks,

Bob
 
Hey, I went to ATP too and I think the program is crap. I did the PPL and the Career Program.

I don't think you can substitute experience with an "Airline Transition Program" - whatever that means. What are you transitionin from? You have to be something first to transition into something else, don't you?
 
mcamtb said:
But, yea, I see exactly what you're saying. I personally, would rather fly/instruct and try to get as much experience and hours as I could. So that one day (hopefully) when I'm F/O for an airline, I know that I have paid my dues, flown my hours, and have a good deal of experience under me, so that I feel like I have earned my seat and know that my passengers can feel safe being in my hands. Rather than pay $25000, to be allowed to have 'lowered' hiring standards
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So says the collective... ;) ...and just to be clear... not lowered hiring "standards"... rather lowered hiring "mins". It's semantics to some... but a clear difference to others.

The fact is... there is simply more than one way to "Pay your Dues"... and it doesn't have to be the same way FedexJoe did it back in the day. Different programs work for different people. Simple as that. Just as this program isn't for everyone... neither is taking years to build time.

People get hired at airlines after spending time teaching flying around the patch and scraping multi out of the flight schools... building a thousand hours doing traffic watch VFR then paying for 100 multi... Being a jump pilot VFR then paying for 100 multi... Building mins for 135 ops (1200tt) then flying around in (some) questionably maintained aircraft making questionable decisions to fly into questionable weather or situations based on pressure from mgmt... Some go into the military to fly and give Uncle Sam 8 years+ of their and their families lives... Some pay for an intensive program that mimics what an airline Ground School is all about and gives you the multi-time and experience you need to be successful... Some people become a "bush" pilot in Alaska for a year or two... Some spend 100k+ to go to an Aviation University and graduate barely with the mins necessary and a degree that may or may not help them if furloughed... Some people get their commercial and fly 5 feet off the ground crop dusting for 8000 hours (had one in my ground school ;) ), Some people work, as an airline intern for a summer and then qualify for reduced mins at or below those in training school "bridge" programs. etc...

Everyone pays their dues... getting into this field is far from free and it certainly isn't easy to pass every single written, oral, and practical test for your ratings, in addition to an airline interview and an airline ground school.

What is $25,000 now in the grand scheme of a 20-30 year career. If it works for you and you are the type of person that can truly learn and gain from it... then it means an extra year or two or three at the high end of your payscale before you turn 60. What's that price in today's dollars? Maybe 100k/year? Maybe 200k/year? More? Who knows. That's the rosy picture... the flipside is... it could all tank on us tomorrow and we're all flipping burgers to scrape by.

Bob
 
robair73 said:
I don't think you can substitute experience with an "Airline Transition Program" - whatever that means. What are you transitionin from? You have to be something first to transition into something else, don't you?
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Just answering your question Robair...

If I were a Marketer... or if I played on on TV... I would say that you are "Transitioning" from a Commercially rated Multi-Engine Instrument Pilot... into an Airline Pilot. ;)

Bob
 
But what is your position professionally? Shouldn't you be transitioning from one job to another? Airline pilots are commercially rated multi-engine. instrument pilots. That's what we are until we get our ATP rating
 
robair73 said:
you really do rant don't you.
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I'm up late... no sleep due to the new baby... don't work again for another 3 weeks... so... yeah... I may be ranting a bit. ;)

I just wish I knew where the line was drawn between "ranting" and "debating"? To me... ranting is simply spewing out info with no real meaning... (stop it Don... I know what your thinking!) ;) Whereas debating is simply answering another question or giving another viewpoint based on knowledge or experience. ;)

Bob
 
I should say long winded. You'd be a great politician in Chicago. I feel like I'm reading a novel every time I read one of your posts.
 
My feelings are that you should be paid at least once to make decisions as a PIC before you even think about being responsible for the general publics' lives, no matter what it is. To just go from training at ATP to training in a CRJ class is a huge jump in responsibility. I don't think that the first time you really scare the piss out of yourself is when you have 50 people in the back. You can't buy experience. You really can't. I don't care what you say about different paths for different people, and what works for some might not work for others. Let's get real here.
 
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