Japanese PAX Jet??

The MU-2 has a small wing, about the same size as a 172. They wanted to build a fast turboprop. It has double slotted fowler flaps along most of the trailing edge to provide the extra lift needed for landing. That leaves no room for ailerons, so that aircraft is banked with spoilers.

In the event of an engine failure in that aircraft, if you "run home to momma" and do the things you were trained to do in a piston twin, you will get yourself into even more trouble. Flaps up - No! You'll kill a huge amount of your lift. Gear up - No! You'll add a lot of drag for about 17 seconds. Dead foot, dead engine - No! Not necessarily in any turboprop as I understand it. 5° of bank into the good engine - No! Would you want a spoiler deployed with only 1 engine?



Mike
 
Newspaper reports have suggested the project could cost $1bn and the government may fund 30% of the outlay.
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Isn't that the sort of stuff the US and EU are having a big slapfight over?
 
Van_Hoolio said:
The MU-2 has a small wing, about the same size as a 172. They wanted to build a fast turboprop. It has double slotted fowler flaps along most of the trailing edge to provide the extra lift needed for landing. That leaves no room for ailerons, so that aircraft is banked with spoilers.
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The MU-300 Diamond (which became the Beechjet) has many of the same characteristics. Although it looks like it has small ailerons, they are actually trim tabs. Spoilers are used for roll control. The gear doors are also huge. When they open, they are longer than the landing gear. If you have a loss of hydraulics the gear can be dropped by gravity, but nitrogen is used to blow the gear doors shut before landing.
 
Van_Hoolio said:
Dead foot, dead engine - No! Not necessarily in any turboprop as I understand it.
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Probably sound advice if you're in a Caravan, but for multi-engine airplanes (at least all of the ones I've flown) Dead foot, dead engine is the way to go. Not busting chops here, just trying to figure out if I'm missing something or if its something special about the MU-2 and why.
 
JDE said:
Probably sound advice if you're in a Caravan, but for multi-engine airplanes (at least all of the ones I've flown) Dead foot, dead engine is the way to go. Not busting chops here, just trying to figure out if I'm missing something or if its something special about the MU-2 and why.
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It's something about the FCU fouling up and making the engine run like crazy. Maybe it's a Garrett thing. If your FCU messes up and makes the engine run in an overspeed, overtorque, overtemp, etc. condition, the airplane would yaw into the good engine. If you fixed it with rudder, your dead foot would be on the side of the good engine, and it would be very bad to shut down that one. Very bad. The only way to figure out which engine is bad is to interpret the engine instruments.


Mike
 
Van_Hoolio said:
It's something about the FCU fouling up and making the engine run like crazy. Maybe it's a Garrett thing. If your FCU messes up and makes the engine run in an overspeed, overtorque, overtemp, etc. condition, the airplane would yaw into the good engine. If you fixed it with rudder, your dead foot would be on the side of the good engine, and it would be very bad to shut down that one. Very bad. The only way to figure out which engine is bad is to interpret the engine instruments.


Mike
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Isn't that why the flow goes...

-Mixtures
-Props
-Throttles
-Gear up
-Flaps up
-Identify (dead foot, dead engine)
-Verify (engine instruments/bring the power back on what you think is the dead engine)
-Fix or feather

???

Even if you just left everything as it was on the throttle quadrant and skipped the gear up flaps up thing, identify and verify are still there and pretty important steps eh? I don't know anybody who feathers an engine too quickly. To do so is asking for mistakes to happen. I figure if my students are trying to feather within 15 seconds of an engine failure they're moving too fast.
 
Well on a traditional twin, you are right the flow is Mixture, Props, Throttles, Gear Up, Flaps up, Identify, Verify, and then solve. But, as it was explained to me by the guy I was flying with, who is very qualified and knows the Mitts or Mu2 very well with a large amount of time in the aircraft. He said that the Mu2 has about the wing area of a 172 and the Spoilerons add a fair amount of lift to the wing during takeoff and landing. On the crosswind takeoff he said you dont turn the control into the wind because you will then loose a little lift on the wing which is into the wind and gain some from the trailing wing, also he said that during an engine failure during takeoff you want to be at least at your proper airspeed or higher in order to keep enough lift for the wing and another thing, you do not want to raise the flaps/ spoilerons because then you will loose that critical lift needed during that phase of flight. He thinks that a large majority of people crashing due to an engine failure after takeoff is because they try and fly it like a traditional twin such as a seminole or a king air, and in doing so you will cut a majority of the lift that the wing needs.

So yeah I guess lol
 
jtrain609 said:
Even if you just left everything as it was on the throttle quadrant and skipped the gear up flaps up thing, identify and verify are still there and pretty important steps eh? I don't know anybody who feathers an engine too quickly. To do so is asking for mistakes to happen. I figure if my students are trying to feather within 15 seconds of an engine failure they're moving too fast.
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Even if the engine failed on takeoff!?

Mike
 
You're not going to tell me that you would try to continue a takeoff in a Seminole if you got an engine failure at Vr, are you?

Our pre-takeoff briefing goes like this: If you lose the engine while the wheels are down, you close both the throttles, land straight ahead and try to avoid anything on the ground. If you lose the engine while you're clean, you're going to do the engine failure flow and feather the engine.

If you need to get it feathered that quickly you were already dead.
 
jtrain609 said:
Our pre-takeoff briefing goes like this: If you lose the engine while the wheels are down, you close both the throttles, land straight ahead and try to avoid anything on the ground. If you lose the engine while you're clean, you're going to do the engine failure flow and feather the engine.

If you need to get it feathered that quickly you were already dead.
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....And hopefully that doesn't take you or your students 15 seconds if it happens at 300 AGL.


Mike
 
The whole point is that 'identify with dead foot' and 'verify by closing the throttle' is not necessarily going to tell you which engine just took a dump in a MU-2.
 
It is my opinion that 15 seconds is about how long it should take you to get everything feathered. The last guy I had with fast hands feathered the correct engine but pulled the mixture on the wrong one (because the feathering flow goes in the reverse order because we'll do our actual shutdown by me pulling the fuel selector valve to the off position. At this point we'll treat it as if it were an engine fire).

And I mean come on dude, if you're at 300' and you lose an engine it's not that big of a deal. If you get full power up on your good engine you MIGHT descend at 300' per minute. That leaves you one full minute to run the rest of your flow and shut down the engine.

Further, the best piece of advice I ever heard was from a retired Spirit captain. He said whenever you get a real emergency, wind up the clock up and give yourself a few seconds to think about exactly what you're going to do. Fast hands get people killed more often in real emergency's than the actual emergency.
 
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