Going below mins?
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Help him bring it down. We're talking about seconds between 200' AGL and the touchdown zone. If you try to wrestle it away from him you're more likely to crash the plane. At least if he's trying to land it and you tank it in you'll be wings level.
Once your down you call pro standards and crew scheduling and take yourself off the trip.
Once your down you call pro standards and crew scheduling and take yourself off the trip.
In my jet, I'm waiting for the time I have the thing on a fully coupled approach to mins with no breakout, do the decouple as I execute the missed, and get from the jet the "What are you doing Dave? This is highly irregular"
EDUC8-or
Well-Known Member
I'd stay away from this tactic. Once you're down so low and the CA is so bent on landing you've now told ATC you're going around and he may not be prepared. Let's say he decides to land, you've now cancelled your landing clearance. Ooops!
Oh yeah, lots of 121/135 operators fly into uncontrolled fields, so it would just be a radio transmission that nobody hears, or even worse, someone hears and thinks the runway is clear and gets ready to takeoff and you've just landed.
C650CPT
Well-Known Member
I had a pilot brief me one time that he was going to descend to Helicopter mins on an approach. The weather was just below our category mins and right at Helicopter mins. I asked him to rebrief the approach ... he asked why and I told him because he briefed Helicopter mins ... I wanted to give him the graceful way out. He rebriefed the lower altitude and then asked what I was going to do about it, stating that we could get in on the Helicopter mins. Now that I was certain of his intentions I told him if he continued below MDA I would be brining up the gear. He got very confrontational, (threatening to break my arm), at this point. I told him fine ... and that with my broken arm and all I would love to continue this discussion with the Colonel. He backed down and we did the approach to mins, executed the missed approach and continued safely to our alternate. We neve had to have the discussion again.
Jim
Jim
How's your arm?
What if he responds is still my plane and just then 100ft AGL you break out and land.
What is the proper way to report this?
Strictly to the CP and never bid a line with this capt. again
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Most airlines will have a pro standards department which is part of the union, not the company. Pro Stands has limited authority and all they can really do is talk to the guy. If it is really a problem then reporting it to the CP may be your only option, but the first avenue should always be Pro Stands if available.
We had a situation where I am where multiple FOs were reporting a captain to Pro Stands for very specific things. For what ever reasons (well, I know the reasons but here isn't the place) nothing ever happened. Eventually an FO wrote an ops report and the captain was taken off line and had to fly with a check airman for the month. The problem is the guy knows how to play the game and I'm sure he was 100% by the book for the month. Now he is back on the line and I pity the FO that is stuck flying with him.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Since it's a precision approach, I'd probably just let him go ahead and land it rather than wrestle with him that low to the ground. There's a runway to land on somewhere down there.
I'm way out of my league here since Im a measly student pilot, so I dont know how hard it would be to actually find the runway in that situation. Only time I'd ever consider going below mins is if I were flying a seminole, or something of similar with poor single engine performance, with an engine failure.
I'm way out of my league here since Im a measly student pilot, so I dont know how hard it would be to actually find the runway in that situation. Only time I'd ever consider going below mins is if I were flying a seminole, or something of similar with poor single engine performance, with an engine failure.
B767Driver
New Member
If he does not respond verbally to my challenges I will assume he is incapacitated and take over the flying. If he is still large and in charge and on glideslope and course and otherwise stabilized and verbally responding to my challenges I will let him continue to fly to a landing...and expect him to brief me at the gate the justification for his actions.
With CAT3 available almost everywhere I fly...there really is no mins...so I don't have to worry too much about it. Anyway...I don't see too many guys trying to be heros (or idiots for that matter)...most guys fly it as published and punch out if required.
The unwritten rule is one missed approach and off to the alternate...unless a drastic change in the weather is anticipated (lake fog rolling thru).
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
EDUC8-or
Well-Known Member
I won't fly with him any more. He's SCARY.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
I havent really been following this thread but just off the top of my head, if a capt is willing to go below mins and put you, your flight crew, and everyone on board in danger - thats a little beyond me. Its quite frankly, stupid.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Regretably there are a few old school captains out there who think that because they have been doing this for so many years the rules just don't apply to them. Saying it like that makes it sound stupid, which it is. But somehow in these guy's minds they can do that sort of thing. The big question is why are they still here(as in flying for the company, not why are they still alive, although that is a question too with some of the things I have seen.) Mostly it is because they can play the game and act like perfect angles when they are being watched. I would like to think that the "majors" don't have quite so many cowboys because these guys would have to go through an interview to get there, but I don't know about that. Somebody over there already an answer that. There are a fair number of guys at the place where I am now that probably can't go anywhere else even if they wanted to because of something on their record. It isn't bad enough to get the booted from here, but no other airline is going to touch them with a 10 foot pole.
And Jeremy, I won't fly with him either. Not after last time.
And Jeremy, I won't fly with him either. Not after last time.
I haven't been confronted with this because there's a pretty strict "dance" we do as we approach minimums at my airline to the point where the PM (pilot monitoring) saying "Minimums" and the PF (pilot flying) responds "runway in sight" or "missed approach".
If my PF continues past the DH/MAP without responding, do I know he's awake/alert/incompacitated?
Two things to think about. If your pilot continues below minimums, he's actually being counterproductive. If he continues past minimums/MAP and decides he's not in a landing position, all of the missed approach stuff goes out of the window and you're going to be executing a rejected landing.
Have you reviewed the TERPS?
Have you reviewed the IFR departure procedure?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
My buddy flew with that Captain. It was not pretty. Also Jumpseating their name has come up!