Pattern alltitude?

[Arnie7781]

Re: Pattern altitude?

Armie, is that what your CFI said when you asked him =why= you were flying the pattern at 600 AGL?

You did ask didn't you? If not, that's your fault.

He did answer, didn't he? If he didn't, that doesn't bode well for your training.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

There are no instrument procedures for this airport, so I'm throwing the "circle to land" excuse out the window.

MidlifeFlyer, the name is Arnie. I've expressed my concern over this issue to my instructor several times and felt like his answers were all insufficient. Do me a favor and don't be so condescending.

I understand what you guys are saying about being able to land the plane regardless of the altitude, which is why I was kind of unsure to question my instructor's pattern altitude in the first place; I felt like it's something I should be able to do.

But, since I'm not that experienced anyway, I'm going to go back and do what worked for the first 80 hours and fly the pattern the way I was initially instructed.

Thanks again for your responses.

 

[launchpad]

I used to teach my instrument students (and only instrument students) patterns from different altitudes both high and low. The low patterns at 500ft agl helped them get a feel for a circling approach and where a 3 degree glidepath to the runway starts when you're lower than normal. The higher patterns at 1500ft agl or higher simulated breaking out of the clouds on an instrument approach at a relatively high altitude and transitioning to a visual approach where step downs, etc. etc. would be unnecessary.

I did this intentionally though. When you're with your instructor, he's the PIC, but he should be able to give you a reasonable explination about why he does things the way he does. In fact, a good instructor should explain these things BEFORE you even step in the airplane so that the experience sticks with you.

If his answers to your questions sound like a pile of donkey doo, then get a second opinion. Ask other instructors and pilots (you're starting to do that here). Maybe a lesson with another instructor is in order to help get a better perspective on what you're learning and why you're learning it.......

 

[Malko]

.....
I did this intentionally though. When you're with your instructor, he's the PIC, but he should be able to give you a reasonable explination about why he does things the way he does. .......

I think you'll get some differences of opinion there. During my IFR training, I was PIC. At least that's the way I saw it and my instructor as well.

 

[wheelsup]

I think you'll get some differences of opinion there. During my IFR training, I was PIC. At least that's the way I saw it and my instructor as well.

hmm, i doubt it, otherwise you had a pretty spineless CFI IMO.

It's the CFI's ticket at risk in a training environment.

 

[Malko]

hmm, i doubt it, otherwise you had a pretty spineless CFI IMO.

It's the CFI's ticket at risk in a training environment.

Maybe I'm mixing words here, but in a IFR training environment (post-ppl), how is the CFI PIC. He does not touch the controls at all unless I drop something etc.... Now when we had 1.6 actual on my IFR long X/C, I know he logged PIC.

I understand a CFI would be PIC for a non-ppl student, but after that, I am not sure.

Anywho.....Time for a Coffee Break....:insane:

 

[wheelsup]

Maybe I'm mixing words here, but in a IFR training environment (post-ppl), how is the CFI PIC. He does not touch the controls at all unless I drop something etc.... Now when we had 1.6 actual on my IFR long X/C, I know he logged PIC.

I understand a CFI would be PIC for a non-ppl student, but after that, I am not sure.

The CFI logs PIC at all times he/she is in the plane giving dual.

Did you go up and do whatever you wanted to do or did you CFI direct the flight? Just because you flew the airplane doesn't make you the one acting as PIC.

I once had post-private, pre-instrument student who thought they called the shots. We had a come to jesus talk when they almost took us into IMC and thought they knew what they were doing dodging clouds at 12500' not knowing when to call it a day and turn around. We turned around and went back. Guess who's call that was? Not the students.

 

[BrianNC]

One can log PIC time even though they may not be the PIC. When I was receiving instrument training, we would file an IFR flight plan and I would fly that either in actual or under the hood. Not being instrument rated, I could not legally be PIC of that flight under instrument flight rules, but I could log it as PIC time. The instructor was the actual PIC since he was instrument rated and I was not.

 

[wheelsup]

One can log PIC time even though they may not be the PIC. When I was receiving instrument training, we would file an IFR flight plan and I would fly that either in actual or under the hood. Not being instrument rated, I could not legally be PIC of that flight under instrument flight rules, but I could log it as PIC time. The instructor was the actual PIC since he was instrument rated and I was not.

right exactly, you are logging PIC under the sole manipulator clause, but you aren't the PIC. The CFI calls the shots and exercises "operational control" over the flight for the most part, regardless of the flying conditions or type of flight plan filed.

both log PIC however.