Just Curious about an emergency procedure

L

ladi

New Member
My question I think will mostly pertain to part 91 operators, depends on what your procedure is.

When I was doing my corporate specific training we had several pilots in our class also. One of the instructors, a Firefighter, ask this question:
If smoke begins coming out of a panel,(ie avionics) in the cockpit, what is your procedure?
I was shocked to find not 1 pilot said it was in his/her procedure for 1 of the pilots to take just a few seconds to grab the halon and and and put some into the area smoke was coming from.

The firefighter explained about lack of knowledge on the halon causes many to not want to use it unless they visually see flames. He said "WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE!!"
He explained how the halon is only a gas and WILL NOT harm any electrical equipment, and that it dissapates. That I did not know.

Anyway, just curious of others procedures, and give ya something to think about.

Ladi
 
ladi said:
My question I think will mostly pertain to part 91 operators, depends on what your procedure is.

When I was doing my corporate specific training we had several pilots in our class also. One of the instructors, a Firefighter, ask this question:
If smoke begins coming out of a panel,(ie avionics) in the cockpit, what is your procedure?
I was shocked to find not 1 pilot said it was in his/her procedure for 1 of the pilots to take just a few seconds to grab the halon and and and put some into the area smoke was coming from.

The firefighter explained about lack of knowledge on the halon causes many to not want to use it unless they visually see flames. He said "WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE!!"
He explained how the halon is only a gas and WILL NOT harm any electrical equipment, and that it dissapates. That I did not know.

Anyway, just curious of others procedures, and give ya something to think about.

Ladi
Click to expand...

I understand halon to be heavier than air, thus pushing all the air down and smothering the fire, I don't want to be blasting a halon cloud in a closed space without an O2 mask on. I could be wrong on how halon works though. Only had one cockpit fire and I was on the ground and out of that airplane faster than a Californian to a drag queen party.
 
I wouldn't be spraying any halon around without getting a mask on first. That stuff will kill you faster then smoke will.
 
Wanted to check my facts before replying.
I copied from this site

http://www.h3r.com/halon/fire_safety.htm

Before my last training, I, like most people confused the Halon w/ one of the dry chemical extinguishers.

DRY CHEMICAL EXTINGUISHERS
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Before you consider the least expensive dry chemical fire extinguisher for your airplane, try one out by using it to put out a fire in your barbecue grill. You won't like what it does to your charcoal cooker. The dry powder fire extinguishers put out fires by smothering them in a thick cloud of white powder that covers everything. And you surely don't want to breathe that powder. If you were trapped in a burning airplane cockpit and if you used a dry chemical extinguisher to douse the flames, you would not be able to breathe in the dust cloud. And the dry powder is extremely hard to clean up afterward, even with a vacuum cleaner. The dry chemical is corrosive and would likely do extensive damage to your interior and to your airplane instrument panel.


HALON 1211 AND 1301 EXTINGUISHERS
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The only fire extinguishers that won't choke you and won't damage your aircraft are the liquid Halon extinguishers. They are more expensive than dry chemicals, costing about $100 for a 2-1/2 pound dry chemical extinguisher, but the results are worth the difference in price. Halon works to extinguish fires by using a liquid that turns to gas when it is sprayed into a fire. The gas displaces oxygen to rob the fire of oxygen and cause it to go out. If you spray Halon into the air, it disappears almost as soon as it is sprayed, but is highly effective in closed areas.
 
1 more thing, I am posting this because, when I learn something new that I feel maybe helpful to others as well, I like to share the info.

I live in GA, and would like to see this brought up at the GBAA Safety Day this August.

Just don't want anyone to mis-interpret me and think I'm one of those jerks that think they know it all, Everyday is a learning experience.

Stay safe-

Ladi
 
Unmentioned step

When I teach electrical fire procedures I stick with the manufactures memory items, these always put donning a mask first.

Note: if you are near the fire the mask may be a very big mistake.

I then teach that the source of the fire, electricity, must be eliminated. Depending on the plane this involves reverting to a generators off, limited emergency systems only. Airplanes used to have a gang bar configuration which incorporated a hinged metal bar over the generator and battery switches; when the bar was pushed down all electric flow was eliminated.

Once the mask is on and the source has been eliminated the fire extinguisher is a good next step. Many emergency fire checklists do not address the extinguishers which drives me crazy.

Ladi, good thinking and good post, pilots should always question there procedures in order to understand them better.

Safe flying everyone

WDK
 
In the 121 operations it usually goes
  • Oxygen Masks and Regulators (if Req'd) ON and 100%
  • Smoke Goggles (if Req'd) ON
  • Crew Communications ESTABLISH
  • QRH
Then there is 3 pages of troubleshooting and isolating electronics to attempt to stop the smoke. No where in the procedures is the crew instructed to use the Halon Extinguisher.
 
If you go to the Halon website, look down the left side column for the MSDS links. Looking at either one, Section 3 lists special fire fighting procedure: use self contained breathing apparatus. Halon 1211, in section 5, says that inhalation of concentrations above 4% for more than a minute can cause toxic side effects. Halon 1301, in section 5, warns that Halon will displace oxygen. They both say further down that these products should be used in a ventilated area. Personally, I don't think a pressurized aircraft is ventilated well enough to use this stuff without being on oxygen.

Plus, the only time I've had an inflight fire, we turned off power and the smoke stopped. It was a transistor installed backward in a new radio. In electrical fires there is smoke before there is fire. If you stop it soon enough (cut the power) you won't have to worry about whether or not to use Halon in your cockpit. That's my opinion, anyways.
 
Halon can kill you pretty easily, especially in a closed environment. One thing to remember about cockpit/cabin fires, is it's pretty important to take care of YOU first......mask/O2, etc. Takes only a few seconds, and if that's too long, then the fire was too big or moving too fast to control anyway....you wouldn't have had a chance.

Take care of you, take care of electrics, take care of fire; generally speaking. Follow your appropriate checklists for specifics.
 
ladi said:
My question I think will mostly pertain to part 91 operators, depends on what your procedure is.



Ladi
Click to expand...

Ladi

I will forward this question to our Corporate Flight Attendant Instructor, & see what her viewpoints are.


Mike
 
ladi said:
My question I think will mostly pertain to part 91 operators, depends on what your procedure is.


Ladi
Click to expand...

I showed your question to one of my Instructors, this is what she wrote:

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This is what we train to at Alteon. The reason Halon is on the aircraft is because it is by far the most effective extinguishing agent, 3 times more effective than CO2.

The residual effects from a small bottle of Halon boarded on a corporate jet are so small compared to the lethal gases given off by an aircraft fire that there is no contest. I would also say that all cockpits have a bottle of Halon for the obvious reason that it is most effective for use in an electrical fire because it is a non-conductive agent.

The reality is that in an aircraft fire the reason for passenger/crew death is most often from smoke inhalation. The fact than one does not see apparent flames is is a poor excuse for not using the Halon
extinguisher.
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