Amazon Air MIA Runway Excursion

[tlove482]

No, it’s certainly not all or nothing.

I wouldn’t want stick and rudder errors or inflight mistakes in judgment to be prosecuted.

In this case, these guys found themselves fast and high, not a rare occurrence, and every judgment afterwards was bad. I wouldn’t want a pilot prosecuted in a case like this.

Cases like 5191 are another matter.

If a bus driver lost control and plowed through a crowd, I'd think they would be prosecuted. What makes pilots any different. Manslaughter is manslaughter.

 

[Oxman]

If a bus driver lost control and plowed through a crowd, I'd think they would be prosecuted. What makes pilots any different. Manslaughter is manslaughter.

If a driver was speeding through a bunch of stop signs and hit and killed 5 peoples, they'd go to jail.

 

[statusseeker1]

If there was ever an airline pilot that could be charged with manslaughter due to blatant disregard for safety, it is this Captain and quite possibly the First Officer. Unless the investigation reveals something significant we haven’t seen yet, it is pretty egregious. Those people on the ground should have never been at risk for dying because two ATPs were unable to go- around off an unstable approach. I fly the same airplane doing the same thing and I’ve been struggling to wrap my head around it since it happened.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

If there was ever an airline pilot that could be charged with manslaughter due to blatant disregard for safety, it is this Captain and quite possibly the First Officer. Unless the investigation reveals something significant we haven’t seen yet, it is pretty egregious. Those people on the ground should have never been at risk for dying because two ATPs were unable to go- around off an unstable approach. I fly the same airplane doing the same thing and I’ve been struggling to wrap my head around it since it happened.

I don’t think this is a good criminal case, at all.

Simplified, they found themselves high and fast and what was to follow was a bunch of horrible decisions and confusion.

In a legal setting, a jury would learn that FAA provides very vague guidance and airline policies that don’t have the force of law. The FAA only encourages the “stabilized approach concept”. Increasing AOA results in decreased airspeed … unless it doesn’t and results in an increase in altitude. Think about all of the “common sense” aspects of piloting and then think about all exceptions.

A defense attorney would oversimplify and it would be surprisingly effective.

Have I found myself a bit high and fast and salvaged an approach? We all have. Have I landed long as a result of less than amazing piloting? Of course, we all have. Of course, we know the limits of our mediocre decisions, these guys don’t.

CRM, what’s the legal standard? Captains are used to FO’s saying dumb stuff. Maybe that’s rare in the 121 world, it’s not rare in my world.

I think succesfully prosecution of pilots is going to gravitate towards events prior to take-off. Checklists, sterile cockpit, respecting lights, signage, and markings.

 

[Mr Grinch]

Keep in mind, all of you calling for jail, that with respect to the public and politicians, that there is no bottom with respect to jailing pilots.

No question that this was an egregious accident that will end the pilots careers and result in financial ruin, but pilots calling for the jailing of pilots will result in unintended consequences. Passengers and flight attendants snitching and demanding incarceration in retribution over turbulence, late flights, what they believe is excessive taxi speed, flying too close to thunderstorms, taking off when it is snowing, you name it.

We live in an age of rage.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Keep in mind, all of you calling for jail, that with respect to the public and politicians, that there is no bottom with respect to jailing pilots.

No question that this was an egregious accident that will end the pilots careers and result in financial ruin, but pilots calling for the jailing of pilots will result in unintended consequences. Passengers and flight attendants snitching and demanding incarceration in retribution over turbulence, late flights, what they believe is excessive taxi speed, flying too close to thunderstorms, taking off when it is snowing, you name it.

We live in an age of rage.

So, you aren’t prepared to have a reasonable discussion on the subject.

The laws are already on the books.

We need to understand when they can and should be applicable in aviation.


27 people on this forum hate me because I want to hang the 5191 FO. I hope they recognize that I don’t think it’s a slippery slope and don’t think that many accidents or incidents should be criminally actionable.

I don’t think this is a good criminal case.