5 stage check failures out of 25. Can I continue pursuing this route...

K

KBBK

New Member
Hey guys, I graduated from a Part 141 program that has in-house check authority, and from Private through CFII, if I count all the stage checks I went through, there were 25 total. I know a lot of people have spotless records, but I ended up with 5 unsats total:

2 flight unsats during Private (one of them an EOC)

1 Commercial EOC unsat

1 CFI Oral unsat (not an EOC)

1 CFII Oral unsat (an EOC)

I'm currently working as a CFI at the school I graduated from, and I'm also a stage checker there. But I'm pretty concerned about my path going forward. I'm a cadet with OO and now I am getting close to 1000, over 900, and I'm wondering if this route still viable for me, or am I cooked?
 
141 schools have a 1000 stages and check in the process.
The only ones you have to consider are UNSAT on an actual FAA checkride.
No one cares about stage checks.

what's an EOC?

edit
Had to look it up
End of Course...

None of your stuff looks like a check ride.

141 schools get uppity on all of their checks
Consider that you might have gotten on someone's bad side.

If you have a Airline, Military, or Corp friend, have them fly with you and give an honest opinion.

Care to elaborate on what caused the UNSAT's?
 
KBBK said:
Hey guys, I graduated from a Part 141 program that has in-house check authority, and from Private through CFII, if I count all the stage checks I went through, there were 25 total. I know a lot of people have spotless records, but I ended up with 5 unsats total:

2 flight unsats during Private (one of them an EOC)

1 Commercial EOC unsat

1 CFI Oral unsat (not an EOC)

1 CFII Oral unsat (an EOC)

I'm currently working as a CFI at the school I graduated from, and I'm also a stage checker there. But I'm pretty concerned about my path going forward. I'm a cadet with OO and now I am getting close to 1000, over 900, and I'm wondering if this route still viable for me, or am I cooked?
Click to expand...
Like Drop said, you are good. Only checkride’s matter.
 
KBBK said:
Hey guys, I graduated from a Part 141 program that has in-house check authority, and from Private through CFII, if I count all the stage checks I went through, there were 25 total. I know a lot of people have spotless records, but I ended up with 5 unsats total:

2 flight unsats during Private (one of them an EOC)

1 Commercial EOC unsat

1 CFI Oral unsat (not an EOC)

1 CFII Oral unsat (an EOC)

I'm currently working as a CFI at the school I graduated from, and I'm also a stage checker there. But I'm pretty concerned about my path going forward. I'm a cadet with OO and now I am getting close to 1000, over 900, and I'm wondering if this route still viable for me, or am I cooked?
Click to expand...
If your a cadet does it mean you will get a class date at a certain time or do you still need to interview? Whatever happens, don't try to hide anything and have a good story about how you learned from it all, yada, yada. I'd keep plugging away with the CFI gig if OO doesn't work out. Something will work out for you eventually. Try to get some multi time. That helps separate you from the pack.
 
Unless it was a FAA ride, don’t worry about it. The 141 school I went to had so many stage checks it was ridiculous. Many of the stage check pilots thought that it was the biggest event ever and you needed to be Ace of the base to pass. @DropTank mentioned going up with a pro and that is great advice.
 
The hiring market for mainline jobs seems to change every few months and there are only a handful on here who do the kind of work where they’re in touch with the latest on that front. I’m not sure that anyone here is in hiring at regionals or keeps much of an eye on what that market is like from month to month. Not sure how the cadet program at OO works but getting hired there and keeping your nose clean for a while would be easy mode.

That said, 2 pieces of advice: first, figure out why you failed so many stage checks, what you need to do to succeed in future training events, and how to explain both what happened and what you’re going to do differently. As @CoffeeIcePapers said above, 141 EOCs are the equivalent of check rides and 3 failures on those is kind of a lot, and (see point #2) someone along the way is probably going to end up asking about at least the EOC failures, and having a crappy explanation that sounds like you’re not taking any responsibility probably sounds worse than having the failures on your record.

Second, when you’re filling in applications, be sure to read them very carefully. Depending on the airline, they might ask about any repeats of gate events such as stage checks, only FAA check rides, or anything in between. You don’t want to volunteer anything they’re not asking for, but you also don’t want to put yourself in a position where you’re looking like you were trying to hide something.

Just my $.02, probably worth what you paid for it.
 
Last edited:
Also you're entering into a profession where there will be a lifetime of checkrides. I'll be the bad guy and say it - this job isn't for everyone. It requires a high degree of proficiency and expertise. Our passengers and fellow crew members deserve nothing less. Now is the time to determine if perhaps another career path leveraging your aviation knowledge might be appropriate. Dispatch for example. (Although the oral failures might preclude that path as well)

I don't mean to be negative, but numerous failures would raise a flag for me. Some introspection might be due before an airline recruiter or worse, training department does it for you.
 
KBBK said:
Hey guys, I graduated from a Part 141 program that has in-house check authority, and from Private through CFII, if I count all the stage checks I went through, there were 25 total. I know a lot of people have spotless records, but I ended up with 5 unsats total:

2 flight unsats during Private (one of them an EOC)

1 Commercial EOC unsat

1 CFI Oral unsat (not an EOC)

1 CFII Oral unsat (an EOC)

I'm currently working as a CFI at the school I graduated from, and I'm also a stage checker there. But I'm pretty concerned about my path going forward. I'm a cadet with OO and now I am getting close to 1000, over 900, and I'm wondering if this route still viable for me, or am I cooked?
Click to expand...

Time and hours fixes most of what you describe but you need to do a little more than just cross your fingers and hope for the best.

You need some mentoring and a better training strategy or philosophy to avoid busts.

Busting an oral usually means inadequate preparation. Preparation isn’t just knowing the stuff, it means you are prepared to verbalize concepts. That usually takes practice with another person.

On rides, I think I’ve avoided a couple of busts by immediately verbalizing a deficiency so the check pilot doesn’t have to wonder if I recognized it. If I’ve recognized I’ve missed something in an ordered list, I’ll add the item and say “y, should be after x”. If I’m a little high or a little low, I’ll say “a little high”. Don’t be a chatterbox or try to explain why you screwed up, just show you are aware you were deficient.

When it comes to busts, see what’s documented. Sometimes a bust is a soft bust and not documented. I had one where a DPE just said, “let’s try this again next week”.

Good luck.
 
Also, hopefully you already know this, but just in case it needs to be said-
If you get on at OO via the cadet program (or any other regional via direct hire), move heaven and earth to not have any 121 training busts. The post Covid hiring boom days are gone and a 121 training failure is a whole different animal than (for example) being 200’ low at the FAF on your single engine approach from your private multi engine final stage check before passing first try with the FAA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top