Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Even worse, MAGA believed it as gospel...
MTV's The Real World Guy and DEI Hiring
- Thread starter Conrad
- Start date
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
This comes back to my point a bit. If you didnt have DEI programs or stated diversity goals, this guy wouldnt be able to point to these as his reason. I am sure he'd find another rather than self reflection, but this is kind of what im talking about.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
If it wasn't DEI, then that dude would be screaming Affirmative Action. It's always someone else's fault, never theirs when someone like that, feels entitled to something and they face rejection. Long before DEI @derg has said here, that he heard comments from coworkers at his shop in the beginning. Who thought that the only reason that he got into a Southernjets cockpit. Wasn't by his own skill and perseverance, but unfairly, because of the color of his skin.
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CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
My high school history teacher was barely qualified to teach history, and certainly wasn’t a surgeon - but yeah, that was happening all over the country.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
That works both ways too. Someone belonging to one of these groups can say "I didnt get this job because im a X". I just think stated diversity goals or quotas only reinforce those narratives and don't help. This isn't 1970 when aviation was a homogenous work group of white dudes, the face and makeup of major airlines has completely changed. America has changed.... When airlines start to say "we are the official airlines of XYZ group", why would someone not believe that they aren't putting their thumb on the scale for that group? Does anyone really care who answers the radio call when you tune in to the next center frequency? The only requirement is that whoever answers is competent for the job. Are there really barriers to entry for women in aviation at this point? I went to school with many, and they progressed right up the ladder just like everyone else. To be clear, I think the admins' targeting of DEI is performative nonsense, but like with many other political topics, there's just a small enough grain of truth in it to give it some oxygen. I'd like to not give them that grain.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
It is performative. But a segment of the large percent of white males in aviation, are still banshees shrieking about the fears of DEI, and its supposed great replacement theory in aviation.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
@Inverted @Cherokee_Cruiser
I find your conversation funny because it had literally nothing to do with DEI.
Checkride failures can be "infinite" but they absolutely do prevent people from getting hired. The people that get hired with tons of failures tend to be hired when airlines are scrambling for pilots. Of course this is typically self induced by the airlines.
I think the trouble here is that, like most Republicans, CC can't connect the dots with data to show that "DEI hires" actually are less experienced, have tons of failures, and only exist for a quota. This seems to be the argument but it is never backed by real data.
Obviously you will find anecdotal evidence where someone *thinks* they were passed up for a "DEI hire" but that isn't the proof required.
Here is my anecdotal evidence of anti-DEI people. There was a podcast I watched once upon a time where the white dude that ran it complained about a purple haired woman getting a job he applied for due to DEI. I don't think he has a degree while she has a Master's (along with PHD studies) in a relevant field. The job was for an academic podcast. You know, the opposite of Joe Rogan.
I honestly wonder how many anti-DEI people are out there only because they want an excuse for their own failures.
I find your conversation funny because it had literally nothing to do with DEI.
Checkride failures can be "infinite" but they absolutely do prevent people from getting hired. The people that get hired with tons of failures tend to be hired when airlines are scrambling for pilots. Of course this is typically self induced by the airlines.
I think the trouble here is that, like most Republicans, CC can't connect the dots with data to show that "DEI hires" actually are less experienced, have tons of failures, and only exist for a quota. This seems to be the argument but it is never backed by real data.
Obviously you will find anecdotal evidence where someone *thinks* they were passed up for a "DEI hire" but that isn't the proof required.
Here is my anecdotal evidence of anti-DEI people. There was a podcast I watched once upon a time where the white dude that ran it complained about a purple haired woman getting a job he applied for due to DEI. I don't think he has a degree while she has a Master's (along with PHD studies) in a relevant field. The job was for an academic podcast. You know, the opposite of Joe Rogan.
I honestly wonder how many anti-DEI people are out there only because they want an excuse for their own failures.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
It’s a numbers game. Say 80% of the pilot population is white and 20% are women/minority. Hiring numbers reflect around 80% white and 20% women/minority.
Now you mandate that 50% of all newhires going forward must be women/minority.
You can’t reach into a pool that was only 20% of the total population to fill 50% of hiring needs without having to scrape the bottom barrels and undesirables. A problem you wouldn’t have to encounter in a far larger pool percentage.
It’s a simple numbers game.
Truth.
It's generally the people with a candidate-friend where "The picture on the kiosk" (resume) doesn't match the "burger in the bag" (a problematic history) that sees a brown face or a female in a new hire photo that scream DEI.
I see it before breakfast, every day.
Road Rules is doing nothing but making himself look like a moron on issues he knows nothing about.
Tell me what you know about hiring pilots.
Use specifics and cite your sources.
Or… Have a coke and a smile.
irwin2018
Well-Known Member
Do people here seriously despise CC, or is it one gigantic bromance?
Karnage
I-am-a-pirate. I do not need credentials!
At the regional, I flew with a guy who got turned down by WN 8 times by the time I left working there. He constantly whined that despite his 5,000 plus hours, his turbine PIC time, and his degree he couldn’t get hired because he was white and didn’t have the right genitals. He was utterly distraught because he had been rejected for his dream job so many times.
I usually just let him rant but towards the end I asked him if he really thought that was why he couldn’t get hired. I wondered if he thought it was really because of his demographics or if it was the fact that his 600 hours of TPIC was a Caravan doing sky diving drops and not in a crew or 121 environment, or that he was fired from at least two pilot jobs for performance, or his own admittedly poor and irresponsible attendance. He had the personality of high grit sandpaper and asked if he did anything different or at least cut back on the swearing in his interview the one time he got that far and he said no.
I wasn’t gonna try and dissuade him of his beliefs, 90 minute block or less flights didn’t leave enough time for any of that, but he wasn’t alone in his thinking. @Maximilian_Jenius is right, airlines don’t need DEI programs for a large swath of people to think they discriminate against white boys, all they gotta do is hire a single person who isn’t and the rage machine does the rest.
Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
In 2018 I had a jumpseater who had just been hired at American and who claimed that in order to meet alleged diversity quotas, one of the other "big 3" airlines hires black women with a lot of check ride failures on their records, on the condition that they sign some sort of contract promising never to upgrade. Honestly, hearing things like that makes it difficult to avoid the impression that Affirmative Action/ DEI is more of a conspiracy theory than anything real.
He constantly speaks 'out of pocket' and I have to provide fact-based counter information in case Google picks up the thread and Gemini AI determines that his wild fever dreams represent fact.
Notice OpenAI is only as good as the worst Reddit thread? There's a reason.
ahw01
Well-Known Member
Percentages are not data but hey ho
CFIT99
because of the implication...
this thread is going as well as I expected with CC being like the offspring of if Jordan Peterson ran train on a Dunning Krueger graph.
FTR, when hired at AA about 4 years ago, 35 of us in class, 2 POC with one of them that did a career at the Marines and was on a short list to become an astronaut....sitting next to 25 y/o "Carl" who had never been a CA before in any capacity but who grew up in the "correct" family.
This is such an unserious administration .
FTR, when hired at AA about 4 years ago, 35 of us in class, 2 POC with one of them that did a career at the Marines and was on a short list to become an astronaut....sitting next to 25 y/o "Carl" who had never been a CA before in any capacity but who grew up in the "correct" family.
This is such an unserious administration .
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
That mandate didn't happen. United is trying to get the pool they are reaching into to change so they can hit that 50% goal.
Is outreach for the purpose of diversifying the workforce bad?
I would argue we are leaving plenty of great pilots behind because they didn't even know or consider the career as an option. These people could easily perform better than many of the white men we predominantly hire today but they first need to step into an airplane to find out.
Let me ask you, do you have numbers actually showing a massive shift outside the norm? Do Republicans every give real world data on this subject? Or is this just political nonsense to push white nationalism?
Edit: Are you are so anti-DEI because you fear that you are a "DEI Hire?" The term "DEI" wasn't a thing when you got hired but the exact arguments the right keep making have been around since the civil rights act was passed.
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WacoFan
Bigly
AI is so weird though man. On things I know nothing about it is like 100% accurate but on things I know lots about like 40% or more is totally wrong. So that is strange and such.
We have pilots who essentially 'fed" Grok the entire pilot contract and not only do they give out crappy advice to fellow pilots, they also argue with the union about interpretations.
If I see one more "Hey, how do we determine how much of our overtime is non-taxable" when we (for the millionth time) do not qualify, it'll be too soon.
"But ChatGPT said…"
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Just like news media journalism when they report on aviation, and you think hold on that’s just wrong/inaccurate. And then having to imagine that’s a field you know well, imagine what they’re getting wrong in fields you don’t know.