Bangor Maine - private jet w/8 crash

[ZapBrannigan]

I don't consider NetJets or Flexjet corporate. They're for all intents and purposes a non scheduled airline using business jets. Their training, scheduling, dispatch etc has a whole lot more in common with 121 than it does with the part 91 business jet flying I did for a Fortune 5 company (ie the Wild West)

Trying to characterize a mishap as something that just happens to business jet pilots is a mistake because business aviation isn't a monolith. There's everything from two pilot operators with no standardization whatsoever, to 135 operators, to mammoth 91K operators with standardization and training that eclipses some of the airlines I've worked for.

 

[WacoFan]

I don't consider NetJets or Flexjet corporate. They're for all intents and purposes a non scheduled airline using business jets. Their training, scheduling, dispatch etc has a whole lot more in common with 121 than it does with the part 91 business jet flying I did for a Fortune 5 company (ie the Wild West)

Trying to characterize a mishap as something that just happens to business jet pilots is a mistake because business aviation isn't a monolith. There's everything from two pilot operators with no standardization whatsoever, to 135 operators, to mammoth 91K operators with standardization and training that eclipses some of the airlines I've worked for.

Can you do a comparison of the Fortune 5 operation and USAir and SWA? I was always kind of curious about that.

 

[knot4u]

Can you do a comparison of the Fortune 5 operation and USAir and SWA? I was always kind of curious about that.

I can speak to the MX side of a very, very high end pt 91 operation (a lifelong friend has worked for these people for decades at this point). They have three airplanes and are always in the first group of customers with early serial numbers when a new plane starts operations. The MX guys go to initial (normally a month long course at the manufacturers facility) and then go to "recurrent" training about every six months for a week or two. Every single aspect of the MX operation is scrutinized down to the final details. For example, these are large cabin business jets and the jacks used to lift them get sent back to Tronair for recertification and overhaul every couple of years, while they're gone a rental set of jacks is provided by Tronair just in case they need them. When an airplane goes back to the manufacturer for a big inspection one of their mechanics is always onsite (although they do rotate the schedule so one mechanic will only be there for a week or so at a time). The flight crews are also subject to this sort of training and scrutiny but I don't know the details so I can't comment. It costs an enormous amount of money without ever flying but the combined net worth of the principles is probably a trillion dollars so it's a drop in the bucket relatively speaking.

 

[WacoFan]

I can speak to the MX side of a very, very high end pt 91 operation (a lifelong friend has worked for these people for decades at this point). They have three airplanes and are always in the first group of customers with early serial numbers when a new plane starts operations. The MX guys go to initial (normally a month long course at the manufacturers facility) and then go to "recurrent" training about every six months for a week or two. Every single aspect of the MX operation is scrutinized down to the final details. For example, these are large cabin business jets and the jacks used to lift them get sent back to Tronair for recertification and overhaul every couple of years, while they're gone a rental set of jacks is provided by Tronair just in case they need them. When an airplane goes back to the manufacturer for a big inspection one of their mechanics is always onsite (although they do rotate the schedule so one mechanic will only be there for a week or so at a time). The flight crews are also subject to this sort of training and scrutiny but I don't know the details so I can't comment. It costs an enormous amount of money without ever flying but the combined net worth of the principles is probably a trillion dollars so it's a drop in the bucket relatively speaking.

Thank you

 

[knot4u]

Thank you

That's an example on one end of the spectrum of pt 91 jet operations, back when I was a traveling mechanic I've also seen the other end and it isn't pretty. Someone said something I heard a long time ago that still rings true, if you go into a town/city and you want to find the criminals and or desperate folks go to the airport.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Can you do a comparison of the Fortune 5 operation and USAir and SWA? I was always kind of curious about that.

In what regard? Schedule/ quality of life? Training and standardization?

It's interesting having worked at so many shops I'm able to look at them all more critically without falling victim to the kool aid and thinking "we are the best"

I haven't always been that way, just wish I had that clarity when I was younger

 

[WacoFan]

In what regard? Schedule/ quality of life? Training and standardization?

It's interesting having worked at so many shops I'm able to look at them all more critically without falling victim to the kool aid and thinking "we are the best"

I haven't always been that way, just wish I had that clarity when I was younger

All of the above or anything you'd like to share.