Expect (FL) x minutes after departure

JordanD said:
Me too but I can see everyone is missing my point.
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TL;DR anything contained in the SID may be omitted when you are cleared on the SID.


@ me next time šŸ˜‚. I haven't been in this corner of the website in a while.My current shop reads expect in 10 but it's the only airport I've worked at that does.

The answer is that the clearance is abbreviated. If the airport has a departure procedure, the procedure will likely say on it "expect filed altitude 10 minutes after departure". If it does, there is no need (per the .65) to read it, unless the altitude was changed.

At one of my previous shops the SID actually said expect filed altitude 5 minutes after departure. Pilots would often read back expect filed altitude in 10, even though they were not cleared that way, and we would have to correct them. This was at a class C airport serving 3 majors and a budget airline.

At another one of my shops we didn't even read the initial altitude (which I thought was a bad practice but nothing ever came of it)
 
It took me a while to find the reference, it is buried in 4-3-2. The way it is written makes this section one of the most confusing in the whole order. I screenshotted the applicable paragraph to save you some effort

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GolfChuck said:
It took me a while to find the reference, it is buried in 4-3-2. The way it is written makes this section one of the most confusing in the whole order. I screenshotted the applicable paragraph to save you some effort

View attachment 87644
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Thanks for the insight! I honestly hadnā€™t even thought of the fact itā€™s in the lost comms block of the SID. I probably have to do a voice clearance once every handful of months max.
 
JordanD said:
Did something change in regard to this phraseology? I've noticed the majority of the time I have to pick up a clearance by voice the "expect final altitude in x amount of minutes after departure" is often left out and I'm only read an initial altitude. Did something change or is this just widespread sloppy phraseology?
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NO, the "expect final altitude" phrase has not been removed from clearances across the board.

It is my best guess that when you received this specific clearance, you had already been assigned a SID. On the SID under "ROUTING", you'll find that the last line of instruction is, "EXPECT higher filed altitude 10 minutes after departure". Sometimes, delivery doesn't transmit departure frequencies or initial altitudes either. There are times all you'll get is "....climb via the SID, squawk 1234" wherein they won't assign an initial altitude, final altitude, OR departure control frequency. This is because the information is published ON the SID.

This is supposed to reduce the radio communications.......
 
NovemberEcho said:
Meanwhile

ā€œProceed direct SBJā€

ā€œUh we donā€™t have SBJ on our flight planā€

ā€œSighā€¦.page 2 of the SID in bold letters.ā€
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I suspect this is why we read all the redundant BS. I get a surprising amount of readback errors on the expect XX in 10. Bro it is literally what you filed. Also, the departure frequency changes so much we always read that too. I find it super annoying because I feel like our SOP was either never revised with the changing times OR management does not trust us enough to issue only the changes. From my end it takes responsibility away from the pilot and puts it on me to catch a readback error and it adds a ton of extra unnecessary verbiage that I would rather only read when it is absolutely required.

Since the initial altitude provides separation in our case, I agree with reading that every time. My last shop had different altitudes for props and jets on the SID and we still didn't read the altitude to the Southerns or the Allegiants who were the only regulars who did not at least have PDC.
 
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