Currently a High School Senior, and sent the tuition fee for Riddle. I am terrified.

There are so many options of places to go now that won’t saddle you with all this debt from the “gold standard” university. You can even get started at many community colleges. The networking will be there at any university with an aerospace program of any reasonable size. Your ERAU degree will get you no further than a degree from “State”.
 
Frankly I think you can get equivalent knowledge with a much smaller price tag. YMMV.

Personally I still continue to be unimpressed with Riddle graduate's egos and their lack of workspace situational awareness.

Oof them some fightin’ words son.

—letting out my “waarrriiooorrrs” call to the riddlie doos—

Popcorn started.
 
It's an older meme, sir, but it checks out.

507673673_9822023657907703_4422083599425884538_n.jpg
 
Deep breath.

Is your family rich? They said not to worry about the cost. What does that mean? Do they know the cost and are willing to pay all the bills or are they willing to help after you borrowed all the money you can? Details matter. Their commitment should be well defined.

How much are they willing to help? Are they willing to help until you get your BS and commercial ticket? Your BS and CFI ticket? Support while you are a poor CFI?

Also, you need to describe a plan if you lose your ability to hold a medical or stumble in your academics or flight training.

Build a spreadsheet, with rows representing semesters. Keep this interval after your anticipated graduation. Each interval should indicate expenses and how they are paid.

For each interval, describe your plan if you get a felony, a DUI, a disqualifying medical issue, academic suspension, loss of family support, loss of ability to borrow more money. Life can throw curveballs.

On this forum, there are two camps. The first camp is get your commercial and/or CFI as soon as possible. Damn the torpedoes. Beg, borrow, and steal to get the tickets.

The other camp is more conservative, encouraging a four year degree in a financial or technical field apart from aviation. Engineering grads can afford to buy their commercial and CFI tickets.

There’s also a middle ground. I recently mentored a young man that was able to get his PPL and an associates degree in a high demand medical discipline. He did this debt free. He’s now an x-ray/ultrasound tech, paying his way towards a commercial ticket.

My point is that there are different paths but you shouldn’t move forward on vague promises, commitments, and assumptions .
 
I spent a year and a summer at Riddle PRC and had a great time. I graduated through the international campus program (worldwide is what they call it now). I was able transfer in with a two year degree and all my ratings thru CFI from a small flight school. You can't do it that way anymore if you want an R-ATP (which is what 99% of these aviation colleges do now). You learn stuff and have experiences at the small flight school that you'd never have at Riddle.

Unlike Zap above, whom I greatly respect, I got zero help with networking or career placement. Networking is huge, but you can do that working at an FBO, going to career fairs, forums like this, EAA, CAP, working at a flight school, ect.

Riddle is institutionalized flight training and the stucture is like the airlines. And, yes, it's very expensive. I don't think the R-ATP is worth the money and that's what all these aviation colleges are pushing now. The time for that has passed and may or may not come back but you could be wasting a lot of money pursing that.

I have a Riddle degree and I had a great 31 year career at a major flying big jets. Riddle did NOT make that happen or really help in any way other than checking the degree square. Being at the right place, at the right time, with the right quals, and a whole lotta luck (devine providence) made it work for me.

College was really fun and I don't regret going to Riddle at all. I just think one should explore all options and not buy into fancy websites. The OP doesn't say enough about what other options they have explored. Highly recommend checking out the Raising Aviation Teens facebook page.
I’ve looked into UND, Morningside (one of my only in-state colleges), and Riddle. I was thinking about this only after I had gotten accepted just now (for some reason) and I’m thinking that it isn’t so bad. Thanks!
 
Deep breath.

Is your family rich? They said not to worry about the cost. What does that mean? Do they know the cost and are willing to pay all the bills or are they willing to help after you borrowed all the money you can? Details matter. Their commitment should be well defined.

How much are they willing to help? Are they willing to help until you get your BS and commercial ticket? Your BS and CFI ticket? Support while you are a poor CFI?

Also, you need to describe a plan if you lose your ability to hold a medical or stumble in your academics or flight training.

Build a spreadsheet, with rows representing semesters. Keep this interval after your anticipated graduation. Each interval should indicate expenses and how they are paid.

For each interval, describe your plan if you get a felony, a DUI, a disqualifying medical issue, academic suspension, loss of family support, loss of ability to borrow more money. Life can throw curveballs.

On this forum, there are two camps. The first camp is get your commercial and/or CFI as soon as possible. Damn the torpedoes. Beg, borrow, and steal to get the tickets.

The other camp is more conservative, encouraging a four year degree in a financial or technical field apart from aviation. Engineering grads can afford to buy their commercial and CFI tickets.

There’s also a middle ground. I recently mentored a young man that was able to get his PPL and an associates degree in a high demand medical discipline. He did this debt free. He’s now an x-ray/ultrasound tech, paying his way towards a commercial ticket.

My point is that there are different paths but you shouldn’t move forward on vague promises, commitments, and assumptions .
Sorry for not clarifying for everyone guys, didn’t expect this many answers😅My SAI Index DOES imply we are low income but even then my parents still can only put in so much. They are willing to support all the way. My backup plan was to go to ISU (my other in state college choice) and do engineering. Thanks for the tips with the spreadsheets.
 
Sorry for not clarifying for everyone guys, didn’t expect this many answers😅My SAI Index DOES imply we are low income but even then my parents still can only put in so much. They are willing to support all the way. My backup plan was to go to ISU (my other in state college choice) and do engineering. Thanks for the tips with the spreadsheets.

Parents can be supportive, show them the numbers, they may have no idea what things cost.

On your spreadsheet, project cash expenditures and anticipated debt.


What you don’t want is to be $200k in debt and find you can’t hold a medical and you’ve been working on a degree that is not valued.
 
I’ve looked into UND, Morningside (one of my only in-state colleges), and Riddle. I was thinking about this only after I had gotten accepted just now (for some reason) and I’m thinking that it isn’t so bad. Thanks!
In my mind, there is just no way $45K a year, just in tuition, is anywhere near worth it! Quick search online, it appears North Iowa CC has a flight program as well as some other public schools in neighboring states that would be half the cost. I agree that if you are going to spend private school money, ERAU is a good choice, but I just feel it's a misconception that it's going to give you any significant headstart on others. Your only guarantee is high tuition costs and possibly crippling debt. And if you choose not to pursue aviation after you start getting into it, you've really thrown money out the window.
 
In my mind, there is just no way $45K a year, just in tuition, is anywhere near worth it! Quick search online, it appears North Iowa CC has a flight program as well as some other public schools in neighboring states that would be half the cost. I agree that if you are going to spend private school money, ERAU is a good choice, but I just feel it's a misconception that it's going to give you any significant headstart on others. Your only guarantee is high tuition costs and possibly crippling debt. And if you choose not to pursue aviation after you start getting into it, you've really thrown money out the window.
Yeah if you're going to shell out that kind of money, might as well go to ATP and get the ratings in half the time and half the cost. No degree, but what's that worth nowadays?
 
Go back and re-read @Autothrust Blue ‘s post. Re-read it again until it sinks in.

If I was a youngin’, I would think long and hard about dropping that kind of coin.

I’d do local community college and fly at the local FBO. If you really feel like you need to network or some kind of pedigree, get your ratings, max out at the local college, then transfer. The stuff you learn is the same stuff anywhere.
 
All I see right now is just people bashing on Riddle. I have a -1500 SAI Index for FAFSA and plan to take out Federal Loans to help with tuition. I plan to go with Aeronautical Science (with flight training). My parents tell me not to worry about the cost. But I am to say the least. How will payments be per semester/end of year? Should I recall my admission acceptance? Is it still a good flight school?
It's a fine school but there are a lot cheaper places to learn to fly. After 3,000hrs or so, everyone flies about the same - you either "get it" by then or you "don't." 3,000 hours is only 3 to 5 years after you start flying professionally unless you work for someplace where you barely fly out of the gate.

I have one buddy from high school who went to riddle. He flies a desk as a middle manager at Amazon now. He couldn't afford it and dropped out. He is deeply in debt and has a BS in general studies or whatever they offer like that there. Meanwhile, I stayed local, flew part 61 for most of my flight training, 141 at a tiny school for the stuff I needed loans from, and had an amazing flying career until I lost my medical. I also got educated in other things along the way. You should also remember that you may not get to fly for a whole career - it might be nice to have some other skills and options available. Aeronautical science is a fine degree program, but a state school and community college for a piece of paper, plus the cheapest flight school you can find on the side is probably a better financial decision than hundreds of thousands for Riddle.

Your mileage may vary.
 
PRC ‘95 grad here (I SWEAR I do my best to not resemble the stereotypes).

Everything above is true.

All I have to add is: If you have ANY interest in military flying, GO GUARD/ RESERVE!!!

Oh how I wish someone had said that to me 35years ago. Every former AD pilot I’ve ever met has said the same thing (except maybe MikeD)…
 
To tack on to this a little bit - I was the janitor at my flight school for my instrument and commercial - it got me a 10% discount on flight time (which means I got to unclog CFI toilets and shovel snow for about $25/hr in 2007), but it also opened the door for my first real paid flying job and after I got my commercial the guy cleaning the toilets was the guy most likely to be around to test fly the airplanes when they came out of maintenance, ferry parts around for the crazy helicopter company that owned us, etc.

Not all paths are a straight line - nor should they be. I got loans, but I also simply worked my ass off, lived at home, and poured every penny I could earn into flying. My total educational costs ended up working out to about $50k in debt when the dust settled? That included my BS in Aviation. I paid on that for about 10 years before I paid it off.

I think I could have done it for about $30k in debt if I would have been more focused in college - obviously, that was almost 20 years ago for me, so literally double those numbers for today? But that's still WAY cheaper than Riddle.

Be crafty, be clever - if you love flying and can't see yourself doing anything else, then... well, fly, but there are many many different roads to a successful career. But, have you gotten a 1st class medical? Have you taken an intro flight? Do you know if you'll even *like* flying yet? Or do you just like the idea of what flying theoretically is? I was in love with flying. There was literally nothing else I could see myself doing. Nothing. If you don't have that urge where that's literally the hyperfixation target you've got then I highly recommend getting some experience doing it first before committing to Riddle money.

A very close friend of mine did his flight training at a community college, CFI'd for a year or two, went to the bush, then medevac, and now is at UPS. He makes stupid amounts of money now, and he mostly paid for school out of pocket - I think he walked away from CC with something like $10k in debt around 2004 or 2005? Not bad for C-AMEL/ASEL IR CFII... And now he basically makes a mortgage a year - granted, it took him 17 years? But yeah - he "made it."
 
To tack on to this a little bit - I was the janitor at my flight school for my instrument and commercial - it got me a 10% discount on flight time (which means I got to unclog CFI toilets and shovel snow for about $25/hr in 2007), but it also opened the door for my first real paid flying job and after I got my commercial the guy cleaning the toilets was the guy most likely to be around to test fly the airplanes when they came out of maintenance, ferry parts around for the crazy helicopter company that owned us, etc.

Not all paths are a straight line - nor should they be. I got loans, but I also simply worked my ass off, lived at home, and poured every penny I could earn into flying. My total educational costs ended up working out to about $50k in debt when the dust settled? That included my BS in Aviation. I paid on that for about 10 years before I paid it off.

I think I could have done it for about $30k in debt if I would have been more focused in college - obviously, that was almost 20 years ago for me, so literally double those numbers for today? But that's still WAY cheaper than Riddle.

Be crafty, be clever - if you love flying and can't see yourself doing anything else, then... well, fly, but there are many many different roads to a successful career. But, have you gotten a 1st class medical? Have you taken an intro flight? Do you know if you'll even *like* flying yet? Or do you just like the idea of what flying theoretically is? I was in love with flying. There was literally nothing else I could see myself doing. Nothing. If you don't have that urge where that's literally the hyperfixation target you've got then I highly recommend getting some experience doing it first before committing to Riddle money.

A very close friend of mine did his flight training at a community college, CFI'd for a year or two, went to the bush, then medevac, and now is at UPS. He makes stupid amounts of money now, and he mostly paid for school out of pocket - I think he walked away from CC with something like $10k in debt around 2004 or 2005? Not bad for C-AMEL/ASEL IR CFII... And now he basically makes a mortgage a year - granted, it took him 17 years? But yeah - he "made it."
Very cool story and legit. One downfall of the "I can see myself doing nothing else" mindset, and I had it too, is that motivates many of us into to get a degree in aviation rather than degree/training is a second area of interest. My whole time at a major I had half the month off. Did some instructing but that was about it. The smart guys got into real estate, or property management, or hobby careers like fixing cars, airplanes, ect. My best advice to the newbs has always been a degree/training in a second area of interest.
 
sound similar to inhaling sharply through clenched teeth

Do not construe any of this as me stomping on the dream of flying airplanes, but I think you should stop and have a think, and some informed discussions. Perhaps not with other pilots; it is axiomatic that you should not take financial advice from pilots.

Anyway, allow me to proceed to give you financial and academic advice:

I would strongly recommend that you sit down with someone counseling-wise who is fluent in the modern student aid system, such that it is, in the United States. And I would strongly recommend, based on the very limited facts you presented here, having a hard look at state schools because it sounds like affording Riddle may be a bit of a stretch. I say this as someone who was ready to go to Riddle for undergrad and wound up taking a cheaper/better and more fun/but a bit longer way.


For those following along at home (I had to look this one up; this is a new way of doing things but it's the same old federal aid goat rope where they bin a student based on their family income), -1500 is as low as you can get and indicates that a student is likely to need the maximum financial assistance an institution and the government can offer nervous laugh.

The good (?) news is that at that score you should be eligible for the maximum in federal Pell grants. You don't have to pay back a Pell grant (that's why it's called a 'grant') and you should exhaust that money and any other scholarship or grant money that may be available to you prior to drawing on a student loan. There is a surprising amount of money to be had out there, but you have to be somewhat aggressive in hunting it down and applying for it. A good counselor and a good financial aid person knows knows you, and knows where those things are, and can match them up for you. The problem is finding a good one; Student Affairs is rarely a haven of administrative competence but the good people in that end of the world tend to be worth their weight in gold.


Serious question: are your parents well-heeled enough to make such a statement? Based on your SAI I would guess not, though if I remember correctly that's much more based on your parents' income. If they are, then fine. Borrow or just accept outright grants from the Bank of Mom and Dad. If they aren't, then that's a problem.


That's difficult to say. If you have such a low SAI score I'd expect you'd qualify for a subsidized loan, which keeps the great evil of capitalized interest away (this is the thing that balloons someone's loan amounts well beyond that which they originally borrowed). An unsubsidized loan, on the other hand, is issued on a no-financial-need basis and interest is capitalized. Whether the subsidized loan will cover the entire cost is beyond the scope of this post.

It depends on how much you borrow and heavily on the terms of the loan. Financing it all through loans could be terrifically expensive, hence the comments about other money sources above. I have met people with loan payments that are the size and shape of rent payments, for example. That is a boatload of money in the early-career days.

Like I said, I'd sit down with someone who understands this system (and, preferably, who works for you and your parents, and not Embry-Riddle) really well before signing for loans.

This is the way to think about cost of flight school. Especially given the changing landscape of federal assistance programs. What is available today? May not be available next year or in four years.
 
I reject the cost of “pedigree” higher education on principal alone. You absolutely do not get value for the cost.

At the aptly named BS level, there is, admittedly, a narrow set of circumstances where a “name brand” makes a difference. This is not one of those cases.
 
I reject the cost of “pedigree” higher education on principal alone. You absolutely do not get value for the cost.

At the aptly named BS level, there is, admittedly, a narrow set of circumstances where a “name brand” makes a difference. This is not one of those cases.
This is not directed at the OP, but I think financial aid and loan skews our business sense when comparing schools.
If we had to pay out of pocket for such things, no way you’d pay $45k a year for something you could get for $7k at a state school or the same product!
 
This is not directed at the OP, but I think financial aid and loan skews our business sense when comparing schools.
If we had to pay out of pocket for such things, no way you’d pay $45k a year for something you could get for $7k at a state school or the same product!
And even that state school is too expensive. My undergraduate tuition literally increased 100% over the course of my degrees (2005-2010) at that level.

But people aren’t terribly interested in supporting public higher education anymore, either.
 
Back
Top