UPS MD-11 crash at SDF

The system is set that way. Besides, why would you work for the FAA as an inspector when Boeing pays more lucrative for the same thing internally? Most people will take the higher pay option.
Most people that worship money above all will take the higher pay option.

There are people that value things other than money, CC. If a lower paying, but still good paying, job allows for a QOL that working for <insert corporation name> does not... I would argue most people would go with the QOL option.
 
The system is set that way. Besides, why would you work for the FAA as an inspector when Boeing pays more lucrative for the same thing internally? Most people will take the higher pay option.
So, you see no problem with this? Yet you fly those jets for a living. Sure, you might be missing door plugs on some jets, but the profits!

The job i do now I could make $30-60k more doing the same thing at just about any other company. But mine has the best employee perks and is FAR FAR more laid-back so I stay put because I like my job and can be on my phone all day while its slow and wander around while the guys at other companies have suits on looking busy and looking over at us jealous when we're laughing hysterically all the time. It still pays more than the ramp tower did by a lot, I'm not so money obsessed to make the jump and lose all the QOL. What a concept.
 
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Most people that worship money above all will take the higher pay option.

There are people that value things other than money, CC. If a lower paying, but still good paying, job allows for a QOL that working for <insert corporation name> does not... I would argue most people would go with the QOL option.



I’m just gonna take a wild guess that the benefits and QOL are still better at Boeing than at the FAA. Plus, you know, not having to worry about govt shutdowns, missed paychecks.
 
I’m just gonna take a wild guess that the benefits and QOL are still better at Boeing than at the FAA. Plus, you know, not having to worry about govt shutdowns, missed paychecks.
You're forgetting one thing that some folks hold on to very tightly, integrity. On their death bed whether an inspector worked for either of your boogeymen the money won't matter, but if they bent to anything that hurt their integrity that'll sting.
 
I’m just gonna take a wild guess that the benefits and QOL are still better at Boeing than at the FAA. Plus, you know, not having to worry about govt shutdowns, missed paychecks.
You sure about that? Holidays off, job security, not being pressured to do sketchy things that are unsafe because of profits. Regardless, kind of insane a 737MAX pilot at the door blow out carrier thinks Boeing being allowed to self regulate with their asinine track record is not only OK but the logical solution.
 
You sure about that? Holidays off, job security, not being pressured to do sketchy things that are unsafe because of profits. Regardless, kind of insane a 737MAX pilot at the door blow out carrier thinks Boeing being allowed to self regulate with their asinine track record is not only OK but the logical solution.

You asked my opinion.

Yes I’m okay with FAA ODA for Boeing. See my post below this about the FAA and integrity.
 
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You're forgetting one thing that some folks hold on to very tightly, integrity. On their death bed whether an inspector worked for either of your boogeymen the money won't matter, but if they bent to anything that hurt their integrity that'll sting.

The FAA is rife with history where they never took proper action, deferring instead to the manufacturer anyway. Eg, the AA DC10 cargo door blowout and emer landing at DTW. They had enough knowledge to ground the plane until the door close/lock mechanism was fixed for the aft cargo pit. It took 300+ dead on a Turkish DC10 to change anything meaningful.

There are dozens of safety recommendations from the NTSB that the FAA just sitting on its hands. Look how long it’s taking to get the secondary barriers.

FAA and integrity, hilarious concept. It’s still about political pressure and corporate pressure, and the dollar at the end of the day.

Look at the SWA engine blowout emer landing at CRW. FAA gave Southwest 6 months for engine inspections, SWA screamed and yelled. So they got 2 yrs instead. Another engine blows out, this time window penetrated, woman’s head and upper torso sucked out from hole and dead. Emer landing at PHL. Now the FAA gave SWA 2 weeks to check all engine fan blades. SWA got it done in a few days for the entire fleet.

At the end, money talks and the FAA routinely caves. Integrity, hilarious.
 
The VTO lines for 2601 on the 74 make it clear that stuff be crazy. Domestic turns everywhere. Guess I'm going to have to remember how to land. Good luck, everyone else!
If you all want RFD flying there’s plenty of it and ramp space. Controllers and employees are great! If I could never see that place again it would still be too soon.
 
The pilot at brown are pay protected. They shut down the DC-8 fleet overnight, not an FAA issue but company convienence, way back in the day. There were senior F/E's on it that had a year off with pay until they got around to being retrained. This will stop hiring for a time but somebody posted 64 mandatory retirements in 2026. You can retrain a guy in a month plus line training but it's a matter of training capacity. I could see some contract training being used with other airline sims. I think the biggest problem is going to be replacing the lift. UPS has the post office contracts Fedex used to have. Will be interesting to see but the contract carriers that are allowed to boost UPS capacity over peak could be used longer term. Will be a dicey issue as it's a contract violation to use the extra lift outside of peak. UPS can do it if they declare an emergency outside their control. I could see them pushing for that.
This little tidbit is going to be interesting post peak. With the accident happening within a week or two of being able to use contractors they didn’t need to pull that card. If these inspections go tits up that’ll be the next card they’ll pull. Anyone at the bottom of the list better pack their patience if this goes on for a while.
I have an uncle who was killed while jumpseating because, back in the 'day,' 121 cargo airliners didn't have to have three attitude indicating systems. A pilot with two attitude indicators is never terribly sure what his attitude is; a pilot with three can confidently disqualify a faulty instrument. At the time of the accident, Part 121 passenger airplanes had to have three attitude indicating systems, but 121 cargo airliners did not.

A third attitude indicator in a transport category airplane is a ridiculous thing to get killed for not having.
:( The more things change the more they stay the same. The stories I’ve heard about incidents that happened even while there was a push against TCAS are jaw dropping and I would’ve thought they were lies if I hadn’t heard them from multiple people. Maybe @DE727UPS will get this right but it damn near took an airplane running into AF1 to finally get TCAS.

The 117 thing drives me nuts. 1354 had the crew on the accident flight CVR talking about how fatiguing the schedules were. The IPA found their schedules to be the least 117 compliant in the company from my understanding. Yet here we are 12yrs later…
 
Literally never been there. Probably would be ok if I never went. Although EWR is looking like a real possibility for me, so maybe I should reconsider...
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Literally never been there. Probably would be ok if I never went. Although EWR is looking like a real possibility for me, so maybe I should reconsider...
You might get lucky and have a few of your EWR's cancel. Last peak there was a company bird and a WGA or Atlas (i cant remember) scheduled for EWR evening turns. Most of the time only one went.
 
The system is set that way. Besides, why would you work for the FAA as an inspector when Boeing pays more lucrative for the same thing internally? Most people will take the higher pay option.

There used to be stability and a pension with the FAA, something that didn’t exist elsewhere. Which was appealing to veterans that rolled their TIS over to a civil service career.
 
The 117 thing drives me nuts. 1354 had the crew on the accident flight CVR talking about how fatiguing the schedules were. The IPA found their schedules to be the least 117 compliant in the company from my understanding. Yet here we are 12yrs later…
On the other side of the freight ramp you have pilots advocating to not go 117.
 
:( The more things change the more they stay the same. The stories I’ve heard about incidents that happened even while there was a push against TCAS are jaw dropping and I would’ve thought they were lies if I hadn’t heard them from multiple people. Maybe @DE727UPS will get this right but it damn near took an airplane running into AF1 to finally get TCAS.
Yup. Passenger airlines do it too, though they tend not to do it in revenue operations (ask me sometime about how the regiOOnal wanted me to fly with stab trim channel 2 inoperative on a ferry).

The 117 thing drives me nuts. 1354 had the crew on the accident flight CVR talking about how fatiguing the schedules were. The IPA found their schedules to be the least 117 compliant in the company from my understanding. Yet here we are 12yrs later…
See above, sadly. (as just one example of regulatory insanity) The NTSB had repeatedly pointed out as far back as the early 1990s that reduced rest overnights as a matter of scheduling (as opposed to being a tool for recovery when things go sideways) failed to meet the level of intended safety under Part 121. The fact that it took until the Colgan crash to get rid of these things (and then some time after that) is boggling.

I remember my last, scheduled, reduced rest overnight sandwiched between two 7 leg days. Would have been December '13 or thereabouts...because don't comply in advance or anything, that'll cost money.
 
Basically, yeah.

I don't dismiss productivity-related stuff out of hand, but having flown some really interesting, 117-compliant backside of the clock stuff myself I'm likely to go...

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I remember doing night hub turns for DHL and being so fatigued I told the FO we are auto landing. This was not a one off occurrence, I’d argue it happened a lot more than it shoulf. Some people don’t know any better and unfortunately it shows. As someone who has done both, one has a higher margin of safety than the other. I’ll let you guess which one.
 
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