This industry sucks (rant)

I am sorry that this is happening to you.

There is nothing more demoralizing that these kinds of circumstances that seemingly are out of our control. I've just come to the conclusion that most everything in life is luck and timing. You can help create your own luck and timing, but in the end... it's out of our control.

I don't have any advice other than to add my sympathies. It really sucks to feel stuck - I'm (and probably a whole bunch of us on here) are going through a version of this in one way or another. Maybe not being stuck at a carrier as a "lifer"... but downgrades, furloughs, forced moves, and potential liquidation are on the table for many of us along with the everyday life stressors. (At the same time, while watching people who seemingly used a cheat-code for life and are sitting safe at legacy airlines not having ever hit a speed bump... thanks social media for that unrealistic view of things.)

In my case I had a lot of long frank conversations with my partner on how we can find some sort of homeostasis with all the changes that are going on in my professional life. It's not easy, but we are trying to make it work, and I'm doing stuff I never thought I would do and things that were never part of any plan to make an awful situation more palatable.

I would say the most important thing is getting that (for lack of a better term) "buy-in" from your loved ones. And, it's ok to be a little selfish in making sure that your needs are addressed so that you can continue to contribute and stay healthy doing so.
 
This is going to sound dark… but yes. As long as you’re alive and well, there is a chance. So it may not be this one, it may be after a year wait, you may have to keep at it with your current employer while you wait. Guess what, more time to continue to mentor and gain more stories for the TMAAT. But if you’re still breathing, you’re still in the game.

It's damaging my health, and it's ruining what little remains of the rest of my life outside of work.
I have plenty of stories. I don't need more stories. I try to avoid stories by mitigating them early. I've never had a fistfight between hangry flight attendants because I will absolutely feed them if they're hungry. I haven't had many "there I was" stories, because usually I see it coming and mitigate it before it happens. But "I looked at the release and coordinated with dispatch to take an extra thousand pounds" doesn't make for a great TMAAT story (apparently). I have mentored plenty of people.

The issue I have is that the job is damaging me, and if I stay I'll only slip into more and more of a funk until I can no longer hold the mask anymore, and then I'll just make people around me miserable. Sometimes I don't have the energy to keep smiling, and it means I can't be the captain I want to be.

And I will absolutely walk out before I become the kind of captain that makes her crew miserable, full stop.

If you walk away again, that really will be the nail in the coffin of the 121 career and you’ll have to be okay with that until your last breath.

You're right, but I can't go another year on 1-3 hours of sleep a night, getting up at 3am every day, then working the equivalent of two jobs. I'm nocturnal. This is as much as I can take, I just can't do it any more. I need out. I know people here are mostly sympathetic, and trying to push me in the direction they see as right, but I don't have any future career prospects at this point. Not to mention that the world is burning down around us, especially for trans folk. I have three years left on my passport, after which I can't work . . . assuming they don't take my medical or put me in a camp before then.

Being a barista sounds real nice, honestly, or starting a coffee roasting business. Or just reffing a crapton of ice hockey.

Or working remotely for a tech company while I sit in a mooring field somewhere or at anchor.

Yes, the pay at a major airlines is relatively obscene, and the work rules are better (in theory—I also have a subset of people who respond to anything I say along those lines with "Sounds like a narrowbody schedule here." Personally, I kinda doubt it, or at least doubt that they understand the nuance of my schedule / work rules), but if I'm not going to make that jump any time soon, I want my life back. I used to do things. I used to have a brain that I could think with. Even when I had COVID, by day four or five I was actually starting to feel like myself again, if only a little).

And I really, truly don't care about money. Yes, I need money to survive, If my current employer had better work rules and actually allowed me to take some time off here and there, I'd be ok staying for a bit longer. From what they tell me, my crews like flying with me, my chief pilot administration appreciates what I do (minus the sick days thing), and I think we have a good shot at getting Organized this time around. We're a quality airline with a quality product.

I just want a life outside of work.
 
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There is nothing more demoralizing that these kinds of circumstances that seemingly are out of our control. I've just come to the conclusion that most everything in life is luck and timing. You can help create your own luck and timing, but in the end... it's out of our control.

Sometimes things just aren't meant to be, and trying to force them won't get you there in any state to enjoy them.

Sometimes you need to chase serendipity. And sometimes you need to listen to the people around you, family, friends, parents, colleagues, teammates, people you work with on a daily basis, when they say "Hey, get out of there. It's killing you."

I don't have any advice other than to add my sympathies. It really sucks to feel stuck - I'm (and probably a whole bunch of us on here) are going through a version of this in one way or another. Maybe not being stuck at a carrier as a "lifer"... but downgrades, furloughs, forced moves, and potential liquidation are on the table for many of us along with the everyday life stressors. (At the same time, while watching people who seemingly used a cheat-code for life and are sitting safe at legacy airlines not having ever hit a speed bump... thanks social media for that unrealistic view of things.)

Absolutely, and if I sound like I'm making this all about me, that's not my intention. I think there's a sort of "toxicity of hope" that people push. "It worked for me, just keep going and it'll work for you, too!" ... feels a little MLM. On a positive note, I did see a lot of Spirit folks at the interview I was at, so I'm hoping they're getting the nod in my stead.

In my case I had a lot of long frank conversations with my partner on how we can find some sort of homeostasis with all the changes that are going on in my professional life. It's not easy, but we are trying to make it work, and I'm doing stuff I never thought I would do and things that were never part of any plan to make an awful situation more palatable.

I would say the most important thing is getting that (for lack of a better term) "buy-in" from your loved ones. And, it's ok to be a little selfish in making sure that your needs are addressed so that you can continue to contribute and stay healthy doing so.

In my case, we've already put moving to a low-cost area on the table, buying land, etc. I'm having them sign up for sailing lessons this week and we're planning the purchase of a sailboat as a bail-out strategy in case things go bad for trans folk here in the US. They're open to doing whatever's needed, within the confines of our personal safety.

And let me just add, entirely off topic, how much of a • stressor the world is right now on top of all of this. Going through airports, getting the stink-eye walking out of the bathroom, having passengers just silently stare at he as I walk through the terminal, or when I welcome them on the aircraft or say goodbye, being afraid to work international trips, carrying a burner phone in case I get reflowed to one . . . watching us citizens of mexican descent getting disappeared for weeks with no due process (when one of my mates is a trans man who's a us citizen of mexican descent (and the sweetest, most amazing nerdy guy you'll ever meet)) . . .

It's a lot. And I get no break.
 
Or working remotely for a tech company while I sit in a mooring field somewhere or at anchor.

That does not exist anymore. At the tech job, you are going to be in the office, SFO or NYC or BOS, 12 hours a day. If you can get that job, and even having a great resume with an Ivy League degree and a past tenure at a few FAANG companies, you probably will not get.
 
This may very well be the case, and I may be looking at it too much from the lens of the corporate world. But for jobs with both basic qualifications and preferred qualifications listed, you may select candidates to interview from both camps, but ultimately if you show up with only the basic qualifications met you better be a REALLY impressive candidate. In my humble opinion though, not taking the initiative to go beyond meeting the bare minimum and getting the preferred qualifications (which may be more hours, volunteering etc, but definitely includes checking the degree box) may make the difference between being the top of the list vs the extra person they interviewed to round out the candidate pool. I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic, I’ve always thought OP sounds like an awesome person - but they’ve said it themselves that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Take one class a semester, do what you have to do, but start now because you aren’t getting any younger and it isn’t going to be easier later.
You can test out of a pretty incredible amount of classes at most places too if you already know a subject pretty well. But I've explained how that works and it wasn't received well. 🤷‍♂️
 
That does not exist anymore. At the tech job, you are going to be in the office, SFO or NYC or BOS, 12 hours a day. If you can get that job, and even having a great resume with an Ivy League degree and a past tenure at a few FAANG companies, you probably will not get.
i know in my small section of IT and the large banking place that i work for we are all getting called back to RTO. Thanks to Lord Cheeto. Our group is going from 60-65% remote to maybe 10-15. Hoping to make that short list.
 
That does not exist anymore. At the tech job, you are going to be in the office, SFO or NYC or BOS, 12 hours a day. If you can get that job, and even having a great resume with an Ivy League degree and a past tenure at a few FAANG companies, you probably will not get.

Just to be clear, I'm currently on the books as a consultant for a company on the east coast that's full-time remote and has been begging me for more of my time. I'm also talking with people at two other places, both of which are full time remote and want to hire me. I've been pushing the whole discussion off due to the interview coming up, and people's advice to "keep on keepin' on."

Yeah, the industry sucks. All industry sucks. The world sucks. But in my time in tech, lots of people were complaining about the same—twelve hour days, commuting to the office, working weekends, etc, while I was working no more than eight hours a day, full time remote, and making more.

There are layers to everything.

And bluntly, a twelve hour day, even in an office, sounds like paradise right now. Every single day at my company is at minimum twelve hours, and if I get a trip assigned that's less, they pad it out with ready reserve (airport standby / hot standby / whatever local term) until it's minimum RAP+12. I get called pretty much every single morning at 3am. (Sometimes I get to sleep in 'til 0305 before they call me), and it's fairly common for me to still be on an airplane at 21:00.

Also, degrees aren't relevant to my field of tech, especially not "ivy league" degrees. If an applicant tried bragging about that to me in an interview, I'd honestly be perplexed.

I'm telling you, horses for courses. I have no insight into IT, SE/PSE, DA/DW, SQA, etc. I don't speak agile, don't touch Windows under any circumstances, and if I do "compliance," I hold my nose. What I do know, however, is how to do world-scale production compute and cloud systems, and I can make a unix system (or a network of them) do anything humans can conceive of, at scale, securely and reliably by design. And there's still a market for my skills, although some of it has become more niche.

This probably comes off as arrogant. That's not my intention. My market is shrinking, for sure, and it relies on people still needing large, complex systems to do large, complex tasks. AI is impacting hiring, although it's TBD if it's going to impact output, and we're steaming full speed towards economic collapse. So I don't anticipate my qualifications carrying me forever. I could lose my contacts, lose my relationships, and lose my current gigs, and then I'd run the risk of just being a face in the crowd. But large scale system/network operators are still a pretty small world. Hell, the biggest threat is having changed my name when I transitioned.

Also the world does move on, and it's possible that my technological prowess will be outmoded in a decade or so. But I'm keeping my skills up, and although I'm extremely reluctant to engage with AI, I've stayed abreast of many other tech developments in my field as time has gone on.

There are downsides to tech. Pay is lagging inflation, outside of the FAANG/FAANG wanna-be companies, and to make $$$$ at one of those, you do have to grind hard.

But *shrug*:

"The eye of the Sea is one thing and the foam another. Let the foam go, and gaze with the eye of the Sea. Day and night foam-flecks are flung from the sea: oh amazing! You behold the foam but not the Sea. We are like boats dashing together; our eyes are darkened, yet we are in clear water."
 
Other options: downgrade. Go to another carrier that may be a step up but not your desired end airline. Corporate. Cargo 135. Leave the industry.
I've been informed that downgrading or going to any carrier that's not a "step up," including another regional, would be the end of my career as well. Basically "keep on keepin' on!"
 
I'm telling you, horses for courses. I have no insight into IT, SE/PSE, DA/DW, SQA, etc. I don't speak agile, don't touch Windows under any circumstances, and if I do "compliance," I hold my nose. What I do know, however, is how to do world-scale production compute and cloud systems, and I can make a unix system (or a network of them) do anything humans can conceive of, at scale, securely and reliably by design. And there's still a market for my skills, although some of it has become more niche.

I have done this. At the largest, most complex, world-scale. Calling BS here. That's what this is.
 
I have done this. At the largest, most complex, world-scale. Calling BS here. That's what this is.
You got me, man. I'm a huge BSer. It's what I'm best known for. Not a commitment to integrity even when it hurts me, not a drive to make the world a better place, not the passionate pursuit of compute availability, efficiency, reliability and uptime.

I haven't gone around the world building datacenters to support production compute, building a follow-the-sun automation infrastructure for Hewlett Packard, where I wasn't a distinguished technologist and senior cloud systems architect.

Drat, my scheme to inflate my credentials on a pilot forum for social clout is foiled. What ever shall I do?
 
You got me, man. I'm a huge BSer. It's what I'm best known for. Not a commitment to integrity even when it hurts me, not a drive to make the world a better place, not the passionate pursuit of compute availability, efficiency, reliability and uptime.

I haven't gone around the world building datacenters to support production compute, building a follow-the-sun automation infrastructure for Hewlett Packard, where I wasn't a distinguished technologist and senior cloud systems architect.

Drat, my scheme to inflate my credentials on a pilot forum for social clout is foiled. What ever shall I do?

Well, then you agree that there is going to be some sort of management process? Maybe waterfall? Maybe Agile? SAFE Agile (that I prefer)? But a at the end of the day, these are table-stakes, ground rules that we agree to play by to work with other people. Even if they are not my favorite, I go with what the folks writing the checks want.
 
Well, then you agree that there is going to be some sort of management process?

A process of some sort, yes.

Maybe waterfall? Maybe Agile? SAFE Agile (that I prefer)? But a at the end of the day, these are table-stakes, ground rules that we agree to play by to work with other people. Even if they are not my favorite, I go with what the folks writing the checks want.

[Warning: dense and boring]
At my last tech role before I left to fly in AK (and for the first year I was there, on the side), the backend service eng team was agile, and they were scrumming all over the place. But their code interfaced more with the product team, and their deliverables were separate from ours. Overall, the project was implemented with a hybrid workflow based on our production roadmap. We had a staged release cycle for the code, but on my side, I would call the specific management process that I used "benevolent dictatorship" or "egalitarian autocracy." :p There was a lot of technological iteration to improve SOC/NOC tooling, external developer platform access, isolating PCI environments, etc, etc. I built out the overall architecture to run the service code, handled ongoing maintenance and automation, managed design conditions and security audits, wrote the automation backend (ruby agent running on every machine, using xmpp for a transport, to a set of multiply-redundant command and control pods with an message queue frontend, built on a pull-type architecture with push messaging that could call "methods" on each system, allowing me to develop a DSL for infrastructure reconfiguration where each system was an enumerable object with a set of relevant classes), and delegated many of the bread-and-butter things to my team. SAFe came along while I was there, as I recall, and the module group that was handling integrations was hyped about it at the time. (They even called the frontend they developed for the DSL I wrote "WebSAFE").

Ultimately, though, my job wasn't sitting in front of an IDE (vi quite often, though), or in meetings, or submitting PRs. I code, of course, but I also script, build modules, build template configurations, do security audits, develop automated systems for release/platform/performance/monitoring/graphing, capacity planning, failure analysis, storage architecture, platform lifecycle control, deployment/buildout/scaleup/scaledown automation, security pipeline management (everyone uses their own passphrase-protected key for everything, every command checks CRLs, etc. There are no user accounts in production.)

In modern terms, looking back, you could probably say what I did there is similar to what we're now calling "platform architect," or "platform engineer," except also having SLA responsibility and building/building tooling for the NOC, as well as being responsible for the overall production infrastructure architecture, its automation, and its ongoing maintenance.

Sorry, this got wordy and weird, but I just wanted to clarify.

As far as "going what the folks writing the checks want," meh? If "what they want" is stupid, I will tell them so, and suggest alternatives.

It's why they hired me.
 
A process of some sort, yes.

[Warning: dense and boring]
<snip>
Sorry, this got wordy and weird, but I just wanted to clarify.

I also think I got lost in there somewhere. I'll be honest, I'm feeling salty about the accusations of BSing. I legitimately don't do that. If I use hyperbole for effect, I usually take care to disclaim it afterwards.

I was really good at what I did. What I do now in tech is a lot more boring, but has the same bones. (cloud architect crap ... k8s, aws (and eks obv), azure, gcp, do, etc.) Pretty much everybody in this space is really bad at what they do, so it's easy to stand out.

Is it what I want to be doing? not really.

But I can put it down when I'm done and open up maya/zbrush/mari/nuke to bring 3D worlds/characters to life, or work on my books, or go play hockey, or go skating, or go sailing, or hang with my mates and shadowrun/chill, or go sit in a coffee shop and play chess with random strangers, or go down to the skate park, or to the shooting range, or go play derby, or go to swordfighting practice, or go do judo, or go swimming, or practice guitar, or open cubase to work on my latest track, or go find shady spot to settle with my harp and play, or do maintenance on my vehicles, or go for a motorcycle ride, or go hiking with friends, or use vrchat, or work on my vrchat avatars, or the vrchat worlds I built, or open up photoshop and work on my digital art skills, or practice my swedish or spanish, or even just play WoW or Istaria, or work on the deliverables for Istaria, or work on the backend webhosting platform I'm running for several nonprofits, or manage my Mastodon servers, or work on my telnet BBS, or the backend services I'm writing for it in go, or work on little projects like https://aph0tic.net/ (a short story of mine in journal format as a reason to learn svelte and js/ts), or work on improving my rust, or writing rigging scripts in python, or even just sitting under a tree and reading a damn book, or any of the myriad other things I love to do.

With the airlines, I'm not free.
 
I've been informed that downgrading or going to any carrier that's not a "step up," including another regional, would be the end of my career as well. Basically "keep on keepin' on!"

Dude, or Dudette or, Fox, Foxette, whatever you most respectfully would prefer -

There are a ton of us, including me, that would love to be where you are right now. And we aren't.

So, I can tell you in a selfish way - "sure, quit - One more spot for me!" But that doesn't really help me, and it almost certainly will not help you. The USA job market isn't just crappy for you. It sucks for everyone.

I'm not even in the US job market. It is bad enough that I'm waiting it out in Europe for a while, but at least we are here. We are lucky and wealthy enough that we could just say F-it and wait out the crap that is the USA right now and live overseas instead. We are well aware that nearly everyone else can not do that.

We saw the writing on the wall last fall, and started packing and figuring out how to not be there. It was not easy. It was not cheap. We have family, and friends, that didn't understand why we would do that. We aren't LBGBT, but saw the risks that our friends are were facing. And everyone else as well.

Anyway, get a degree. I think that all of JC wants the best for you. Check the boxes, get a better gig. We all love ya.
 
Hey I may have missed it up thread but have you applied to the fractional as well?

I don’t want to be too pessimistic but you’re over flying for OO, I don’t know if a major/legacy is going to be much of a step up. My job at mainline is pretty much the same as it was at spirit which was the same as it was at Compass. Maybe a non 121 thing would suit you better.
 
Dude, or Dudette or, Fox, Foxette, whatever you most respectfully would prefer -

There are a ton of us, including me, that would love to be where you are right now. And we aren't.

I love how everyone can confidently say that without actually being here. I'm sure from the outside looking in, it must seem nice. I get to FLY JEETTTTSS OMG HOW COOL. And yeah, it is cool! I get to be a captain! That's awesome! And yeah, it is awesome.

That's the good part. And if the good part existed in isolation, I'd never leave. Move up, sure if it happened it happened, and that'd be cool.

What you're not seeing, and what people on the outside can't seem to understand no matter how much you explain it, is how grueling this job is at the bottom.

People often try to compare it to other industries, or other lifestyles. Even people in the airlines, once they have some seniority under their belt, tend to forget how much it sucks at the bottom. People at majors tend to forget the trauma pretty damned quick, by my observation.

But when you're on day five of getting woken up at 3am to work a 14 hour day, when you're running on two hours of sleep, when you're so tired that your muscles don't want to move anymore and lifting your coffee hurts, when you're stressed because you woke up to find that you'd been reflowed into five legs ending at 7pm (but it's legal because two are deadheads), giving you min rest in Fresno, and you just want to yell "•" at the top of your lungs, but you have to put on a big grin and say good morning to the TSA agent who says "God, you're back again?"

When you show up to the plane, barely hanging on, and you find that your APU is out, your brand new FAs are grouchy because they got min rest from the night before and your FO finished IOE yesterday, and you know that you're going to have to spend the next thirteen hours coaching and mentoring, and explaining vertical modes, and watching them bang through procedures with no idea of why, and you know that you're going to be doing the mental work of both seats . . .
when your first leg gets two hours of flow, and you push back, and then flow cancels and you get a wheels up time in three minutes with your engines shut down, and then you get airborne and get holding instructions, advise ready to copy . . . and you're messaging dispatch, and they don't answer, and they didn't give you reserve fuel anyway, so you declare min fuel, and your green FO is looking at you with wide eyes and a "what do I do" stare, and you're telling the FAs and ATC that you're probably going to divert, and then dispatch comes back and says "Your burn to destination is 2,300 pounds," and then ATC tells you "Reroute, advise ready to copy," and you're cleared to your destination via a new arrival, and you start flying there, then you're below 18,000' on vectors, and they give you another reroute to a different arrival, different runway, and your FO puts it in entirely wrong, and you want to help them but they don't understand what you're saying, and you're PF and responsible for flight-path-management, and now you're showing low landing numbers, but your FO can't figure out how to give you direct fix on the arrival, and you have to coach them through it . . . and then you land, and you're on a minimum standard turn, so you have 22 minutes to get people off and get airborne again. But your FAs are exhausted, too, and you offer to run in to get them coffee, and come back, check in on everybody. And everyone's boarded, and the gate agent is huffy, but you're good to go. You knock out the checklists and get off the gate, when you get DING: ... and now you're pulling out the QRH, calling maintenance, doing a reset procedure, and it's fine but you won't have autopilot for the next leg. And you're so tired that your head is swimming, but you can't call out fatigued every single day, can you . . . ? And on the next leg while you're trying to hold altitude, ATC tells you they need you at 340, and you tell them unable, and they tell you "Ok, well, you need to go down to 24 then." And you're bouncing along at 24,000', and there are people meowing on guard, and your FA is calling you to tell you that the passenger in 14B just managed to defecate in such a way that the ceiling of the forward lavatory is coated, and they've closed that lav, and you tell the FO to message the company to get a hazmat cleaner to meet the plane, and your FO is talking about how they just got into the United Pathway Program, but they earned it because their dad paid for flight training and the airplane he bought needed maintenance once, and nobody is going to read this wall of text, but that's kinda the fun part. It's like a little rant-themed easter egg. And if you've read this far, you're the lucky winner! I'm a nigerian princess, and I have a jillion dollars that you can have if you just pay to withdraw it, but anyway, you land at your destination, and the gate is occupied. And ops tells you no, you can't use the gate beside it, despite the fact that it's empty. So you make a PA, but ground is yelling at you to get you to move, but you've already shut down your right engine, so to turn back to the left you have to wallow around or start #2 up again. So you taxi to the back acreage, set the brake, tell the FO to wake you up when they call. But then they need to move you because they've got a heavy coming through. With a sigh, you swing around, let the heavy past, and then turn around to park in the same spot. At that point, the gate opens, and you taxi in. The rampers have just pushed the previous plane out, but as soon as they disconnect, they pull back into the gate and disappear to their lunch break. And you call operations, and operations tells you that they'll call somebody. And you make another PA, and you can hear the groans and anger even through the flight deck door. And your cabin call goes BING, and you're like "Hey, what's up?" And they're like "Hey, so what's really going on?" And you're like "I told you." And they're like "It's hot back here, and smells like sewage. And the passengers are complaining." And you check, and the ECS synoptic page says it's set to 22 degrees, but it's actually 26, and you make a PA to apologize, then recycle the bleeds to see if it kicks the fans back on. You're still waiting on rampers, and eventually they mosey out to their positions, then they all come back in to "huddle." The huddle goes on longer than it takes to sing "happy birthday" twelve times. You get a message from dispatch, asking what's going on, and a "INQUIRY" for the ground delay program. The rampers finally come out, and you go to release the brakes, and DING. "Hey, what's up?" "Yeah, we just had a passenger go into the aft lav, and now there's a line." BUT EVENTUALLY you get into the gate, 15 minutes later, get through the shutdown checklist after yelling out the window for someone to give you the "chocks in" signal, and you're finally ready to go. However, there are no wheelchairs, despite having two aisle chairs and five wheelchairs on board. You go up to check with the gate agent, and she's surprised by the request for wheelchairs or hazmat team, but she says she'll call. You get back to the plane, and find that you're now swapping to a different plane in a different terminal. At least you get to get out of this piece of crap, right? So you get to the gate with your new plane all there waiting for you, and all the passengers are giving you the stinkeye, and the gate agent is giving you the stinkeye. You get on board, start the APU, start programming the box, and the FO comes up and says "Hey, cap, looks like there's a bird strike on the right wing."

... and you still have a million legs to go.

And when you finally do get a day off, you're an absolute zombie. You can't even smile to greet friends and family. You collapse into bed around 22:00, when you get home, because you're so exhausted that it overrides your circadian rhythm, but you have to wake up at 9am because you have an appointment. The next day you get up at 1100, and it's amazing. You've finally had a good night of sleep. You stretch, yawn, and head downstairs ... but the fatigue is still there behind the eyes, and you look at the calendar only to see that you're back on reserve in sixteen hours. People around you are oblivious to how tight your timing is, and they laugh and joke while you sit there, stressed by knowing what's coming.

Again, five on, two off, five on, three off, four on, two off ... every time you submit for early release: DENIED. Gold day: Denied. Vacation: Denied. Time off request: Denied. Move reserve day: Denied. Talk with crew support: Denied.

So, I can tell you in a selfish way - "sure, quit - One more spot for me!" But that doesn't really help me, and it almost certainly will not help you. The USA job market isn't just crappy for you. It sucks for everyone.

Yeah, we have a megalomaniacal dictator and a facile band of complicit toadies who are dead set on running this place into the ground to rebuild it as a christofascist oligarchy/kleptocracy, which is an existential threat to my safety and those of my mates, who I'd do anything for.

I'm not even in the US job market. It is bad enough that I'm waiting it out in Europe for a while, but at least we are here. We are lucky and wealthy enough that we could just say F-it and wait out the crap that is the USA right now and live overseas instead. We are well aware that nearly everyone else can not do that.

We're literally looking at buying a sailboat and going "cruising" to wait it out.

We saw the writing on the wall last fall, and started packing and figuring out how to not be there. It was not easy. It was not cheap. We have family, and friends, that didn't understand why we would do that. We aren't LBGBT, but saw the risks that our friends are were facing. And everyone else as well.

Totally support your decision. It's not an option for us.

Anyway, get a degree. I think that all of JC wants the best for you. Check the boxes, get a better gig. We all love ya.

I doubt degree is a factor here. But I had to leave my animschool classes, which I was absolutely passionate about, due to lack of time to do the work. I was contributing to an old game project that is incredibly dear to my heart as a 3D artist, and I had to abandon my projects there—with deep apologies—due to absolute lack of time in my schedule to do any work.
 
Hey I may have missed it up thread but have you applied to the fractional as well?

I don’t want to be too pessimistic but you’re over flying for OO, I don’t know if a major/legacy is going to be much of a step up. My job at mainline is pretty much the same as it was at spirit which was the same as it was at Compass. Maybe a non 121 thing would suit you better.

I really appreciate your advice here, because I think it's a very reasonable take.

But I absolutely despise rich people, so I don't think it'd work out.

I've considered medevac pretty heavily, as well as trying to get a gig flying something scheduled in the PNW. I've even considered going back to Alaska. (Winters in Alaska were the most amazing thing, and we could get as much time off as we wanted) The options kinda suck, though. And I was glad to get out of that kind of flying for sheer risk level. But right now, I think the risk level of me doing this is actually higher. Less from blunt force trauma, more from stress and lack of sleep.
 
I love how everyone can confidently say that without actually being here. I'm sure from the outside looking in, it must seem nice. I get to FLY JEETTTTSS OMG HOW COOL. And yeah, it is cool! I get to be a captain! That's awesome! And yeah, it is awesome.

That's the good part. And if the good part existed in isolation, I'd never leave. Move up, sure if it happened it happened, and that'd be cool.

What you're not seeing, and what people on the outside can't seem to understand no matter how much you explain it, is how grueling this job is at the bottom.

People often try to compare it to other industries, or other lifestyles. Even people in the airlines, once they have some seniority under their belt, tend to forget how much it sucks at the bottom. People at majors tend to forget the trauma pretty damned quick, by my observation.

But when you're on day five of getting woken up at 3am to work a 14 hour day, when you're running on two hours of sleep, when you're so tired that your muscles don't want to move anymore and lifting your coffee hurts, when you're stressed because you woke up to find that you'd been reflowed into five legs ending at 7pm (but it's legal because two are deadheads), giving you min rest in Fresno, and you just want to yell "•" at the top of your lungs, but you have to put on a big grin and say good morning to the TSA agent who says "God, you're back again?"

When you show up to the plane, barely hanging on, and you find that your APU is out, your brand new FAs are grouchy because they got min rest from the night before and your FO finished IOE yesterday, and you know that you're going to have to spend the next thirteen hours coaching and mentoring, and explaining vertical modes, and watching them bang through procedures with no idea of why, and you know that you're going to be doing the mental work of both seats . . .
when your first leg gets two hours of flow, and you push back, and then flow cancels and you get a wheels up time in three minutes with your engines shut down, and then you get airborne and get holding instructions, advise ready to copy . . . and you're messaging dispatch, and they don't answer, and they didn't give you reserve fuel anyway, so you declare min fuel, and your green FO is looking at you with wide eyes and a "what do I do" stare, and you're telling the FAs and ATC that you're probably going to divert, and then dispatch comes back and says "Your burn to destination is 2,300 pounds," and then ATC tells you "Reroute, advise ready to copy," and you're cleared to your destination via a new arrival, and you start flying there, then you're below 18,000' on vectors, and they give you another reroute to a different arrival, different runway, and your FO puts it in entirely wrong, and you want to help them but they don't understand what you're saying, and you're PF and responsible for flight-path-management, and now you're showing low landing numbers, but your FO can't figure out how to give you direct fix on the arrival, and you have to coach them through it . . . and then you land, and you're on a minimum standard turn, so you have 22 minutes to get people off and get airborne again. But your FAs are exhausted, too, and you offer to run in to get them coffee, and come back, check in on everybody. And everyone's boarded, and the gate agent is huffy, but you're good to go. You knock out the checklists and get off the gate, when you get DING: ... and now you're pulling out the QRH, calling maintenance, doing a reset procedure, and it's fine but you won't have autopilot for the next leg. And you're so tired that your head is swimming, but you can't call out fatigued every single day, can you . . . ? And on the next leg while you're trying to hold altitude, ATC tells you they need you at 340, and you tell them unable, and they tell you "Ok, well, you need to go down to 24 then." And you're bouncing along at 24,000', and there are people meowing on guard, and your FA is calling you to tell you that the passenger in 14B just managed to defecate in such a way that the ceiling of the forward lavatory is coated, and they've closed that lav, and you tell the FO to message the company to get a hazmat cleaner to meet the plane, and your FO is talking about how they just got into the United Pathway Program, but they earned it because their dad paid for flight training and the airplane he bought needed maintenance once, and nobody is going to read this wall of text, but that's kinda the fun part. It's like a little rant-themed easter egg. And if you've read this far, you're the lucky winner! I'm a nigerian princess, and I have a jillion dollars that you can have if you just pay to withdraw it, but anyway, you land at your destination, and the gate is occupied. And ops tells you no, you can't use the gate beside it, despite the fact that it's empty. So you make a PA, but ground is yelling at you to get you to move, but you've already shut down your right engine, so to turn back to the left you have to wallow around or start #2 up again. So you taxi to the back acreage, set the brake, tell the FO to wake you up when they call. But then they need to move you because they've got a heavy coming through. With a sigh, you swing around, let the heavy past, and then turn around to park in the same spot. At that point, the gate opens, and you taxi in. The rampers have just pushed the previous plane out, but as soon as they disconnect, they pull back into the gate and disappear to their lunch break. And you call operations, and operations tells you that they'll call somebody. And you make another PA, and you can hear the groans and anger even through the flight deck door. And your cabin call goes BING, and you're like "Hey, what's up?" And they're like "Hey, so what's really going on?" And you're like "I told you." And they're like "It's hot back here, and smells like sewage. And the passengers are complaining." And you check, and the ECS synoptic page says it's set to 22 degrees, but it's actually 26, and you make a PA to apologize, then recycle the bleeds to see if it kicks the fans back on. You're still waiting on rampers, and eventually they mosey out to their positions, then they all come back in to "huddle." The huddle goes on longer than it takes to sing "happy birthday" twelve times. You get a message from dispatch, asking what's going on, and a "INQUIRY" for the ground delay program. The rampers finally come out, and you go to release the brakes, and DING. "Hey, what's up?" "Yeah, we just had a passenger go into the aft lav, and now there's a line." BUT EVENTUALLY you get into the gate, 15 minutes later, get through the shutdown checklist after yelling out the window for someone to give you the "chocks in" signal, and you're finally ready to go. However, there are no wheelchairs, despite having two aisle chairs and five wheelchairs on board. You go up to check with the gate agent, and she's surprised by the request for wheelchairs or hazmat team, but she says she'll call. You get back to the plane, and find that you're now swapping to a different plane in a different terminal. At least you get to get out of this piece of crap, right? So you get to the gate with your new plane all there waiting for you, and all the passengers are giving you the stinkeye, and the gate agent is giving you the stinkeye. You get on board, start the APU, start programming the box, and the FO comes up and says "Hey, cap, looks like there's a bird strike on the right wing."

... and you still have a million legs to go.

And when you finally do get a day off, you're an absolute zombie. You can't even smile to greet friends and family. You collapse into bed around 22:00, when you get home, because you're so exhausted that it overrides your circadian rhythm, but you have to wake up at 9am because you have an appointment. The next day you get up at 1100, and it's amazing. You've finally had a good night of sleep. You stretch, yawn, and head downstairs ... but the fatigue is still there behind the eyes, and you look at the calendar only to see that you're back on reserve in sixteen hours. People around you are oblivious to how tight your timing is, and they laugh and joke while you sit there, stressed by knowing what's coming.

Again, five on, two off, five on, three off, four on, two off ... every time you submit for early release: DENIED. Gold day: Denied. Vacation: Denied. Time off request: Denied. Move reserve day: Denied. Talk with crew support: Denied.



Yeah, we have a megalomaniacal dictator and a facile band of complicit toadies who are dead set on running this place into the ground to rebuild it as a christofascist oligarchy/kleptocracy, which is an existential threat to my safety and those of my mates, who I'd do anything for.



We're literally looking at buying a sailboat and going "cruising" to wait it out.



Totally support your decision. It's not an option for us.



I doubt degree is a factor here. But I had to leave my animschool classes, which I was absolutely passionate about, due to lack of time to do the work. I was contributing to an old game project that is incredibly dear to my heart as a 3D artist, and I had to abandon my projects there—with deep apologies—due to absolute lack of time in my schedule to do any work.
I don’t think going to a major is going to fix a lot of that…

Remember, people like @drunkenbeagle eying the job you have are no different than you eyeing that job you’re looking for. The crud rolls downhill, but you can be happy or unhappy anywhere.
 
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