This industry sucks (rant)

🦈💜

🦈💜

Well-Known Member
I've put my heart and soul into every damned leg, trying to be the best crewmember, the best pilot, the best captain and the best mentor I could be.

Every leg. Even as it's run me ragged, even as I've spent the last two and a half years as the plug, flying 100 hours a month of short-call reserve without soft time.

I've taken care of my crews, taken care of my passengers, tried to make everything just a little bit better for everybody, all the time. Every leg. Because it's the right thing to do, because I care, because we're all in this together. I take responsibility for my crew's actions and performance, I try to educate. I try to give the best career advice I can to my FOs. I make sure everyone on my crew is fed and has their needs met, and I try to buy dinner for the crew at least once a trip.

And as of today, every single possibility of moving on has turned me down.

There was a discussion that ran for a long time here that talked about regional lifers, and how they all had something to hide. Somewhere, somehow, they were villains, lying to gain sympathy.

Well, it's not true.

They say that the airlines want you to be yourself. They want to get to know you.

That's also not true.

They complain about people giving canned, made-up answers from Emerald Coast etc, but then they hire them anyway.

It's a big club, and I ain't in it.

If you're in the club, life is great. If you're not, you ain't getting in.

"Oh hah," some of you will say, "There she goes, demonstrating why she's not hireable. Dodged a bullet there, amirite?"

Fine. You know what? Let it burn. Give me your worst. Tell me what a crap person I am. Tell me how I got interview prep, but should have used a different company. Tell me how I just needed to keep grinding, or get a navy suit. How I needed more makeup. Or maybe no makeup, and try to go "guy mode." Tell me that I'm a piece of trash and you're glad that I'm not coming to a major. To your airline. Whatever you want to say. Get it all out, and have a great time doing it.

The thing is, I can't do this regional life anymore. I've spent the last ten years at it. I got COVID twice in the past year, and now every time I call out sick I have to call my CP because "you've been out a lot this last year, we need to talk about next steps" despite working 18+ days a month, every month, where every single day that I'm sick has to be justified as an "occurrence." I've never called out sick when I wasn't sick. Not once. Even when I should have, even when I should have taken a mental health break after flying five days of 14 hour days with 3am wakeups, and "min rest" at home. Even when the world was on fire around me. Even when I desperately, truly needed a vacation.

I've only called out sick when I was not fit to fly.

There's no future for me in this industry, and it's beyond the "just stay positive and keep going" phase.

I'm truly happy for those of you who've made it, but for me it was apparently not to be.
 
I hope for the best for you but the college degree thing is probably becoming a bigger factor again, not in the post covid boom anymore. I know you had mentioned fire aviation interests in the past, is that something you’re still interested in exploring?
 
bp said:
I hope for the best for you but the college degree thing is probably becoming a bigger factor again, not in the post covid boom anymore. I know you had mentioned fire aviation interests in the past, is that something you’re still interested in exploring?
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It absolutely is. I put apps in every time CalFire opens, but I probably have too much airline stank on me. I've stopped by a few of their bases, talked to their pilots, and it's really my dream job.

My apps there have so far been declined without comment.
 
Was this last one an unsuccessful interview as well? Or a TBNT from an app submission?

If it was the interview, I’d say there must be something you’re saying or not saying that’s causing the stop. On paper, you hit all the marks, even without the degree you now must have a good amount of 121 PIC. They wouldn’t invite you to an interview if the reason they don’t want you is a lack of a degree, they wouldn’t waste the time. Do they ask you why you don’t have a degree in the interview? If so, what sort of response do you give. I was asked at my AS interview why I didn’t have one this late in my career and life.

The next few years will see an increase in hiring, I’d say maybe 50-60% of that in 22-23. Obviously, many factors can bring that to a halt
 
Have you ever received any feedback after an interview? The only job I interviewed for and didn’t get, is for the job I have right now. Interviewed and didn’t get it in 2007, I did reach out to the company, thanked them for the opportunity and asked were there any red flags I wasn’t aware of? A pilot interviewer responded and said at that point I was still relatively green ( no TPIC yet) and encouraged me to reapply. 6 more years of regional-ing and I ended up at that shop.

Obviously you have more experience than the typical 26 yr old mustached major new hire. Clearly that’s not the issue. How’s the vibe in the interview room? Are you good at small talk? Do people seem at ease around you?
 
Autothrust Blue said:
You know you can…get a degree, right?
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I know this will get pushback from you, but I see it as bad financial decision making anymore to just get a degree because it’s a degree. I really think that needs to go away at the 121 level. If you have other examples in your resume of following through in a challenging goal that you saw to completion, that should hold as much weight.

I have no degree and made it through 4 part 121 training initials and every recurrent so far. So there isn’t a secret sauce learned in college that one cannot learn in other endeavors. I may not have had to cram for mid terms while hung over 10 years ago, but I completed tasks that required persistence and was able to explain those at the interview.

Honestly, do you agree that if a candidate is getting an invite to an interview without a degree, it may be something else causing the NoGo?

Now go ahead, light me up!

Edit**. Now if one shows up socially awkward at an interview giving robotic answers, yes I’d argue the college experience may have benefited that particular candidate
 
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JDean3204 said:
I know this will get pushback from you, but I see it as bad financial decision making anymore to just get a degree because it’s a degree. I really think that needs to go away at the 121 level. If you have other examples in your resume of following through in a challenging goal that you saw to completion, that should hold as much weight.

I have no degree and made it through 4 part 121 training initials and every recurrent so far. So there isn’t a secret sauce learned in college that one cannot learn in other endeavors. I may not have had to cram for mid terms while hung over 10 years ago, but I completed tasks that required persistence and was able to explain those at the interview.

Honestly, do you agree that if a candidate is getting an invite to an interview without a degree, it may be something else causing the NoGo?

Now go ahead, light me up!

Edit**. Now if one shows up socially awkward at an interview giving robotic answers, yes I’d argue the college experience may have benefited that particular candidate
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Cool. Anyway, to get to the top of the stack nowadays…
 
JDean3204 said:
Was this last one an unsuccessful interview as well?
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Yes. In-person interview in Denver.

JDean3204 said:
If it was the interview, I’d say there must be something you’re saying or not saying that’s causing the stop.
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One would think so, but only the SouthWest interviews involved much in the way of "guided discussion." The others were all TMAAT questions.

That said, I did interview prep for the last three of my in-person interviews. The people doing my interview prep have always had good things to say, and seemed shocked when I didn't get the nod.

JDean3204 said:
On paper, you hit all the marks, even without the degree you now must have a good amount of 121 PIC.
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I do.

JDean3204 said:
They wouldn’t invite you to an interview if the reason they don’t want you is a lack of a degree, they wouldn’t waste the time.
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I would have thought that, as well. The subject of a degree would not come up. Again, there was no guided discussion, only TMAAT.

JDean3204 said:
The next few years will see an increase in hiring, I’d say maybe 50-60% of that in 22-23. Obviously, many factors can bring that to a halt
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It doesn't matter. I'm not eligible to reapply for a year, by which point that will all be over again.

And nobody else has responded to my apps this year.
 
🦈💜 said:
Yes. In-person interview in Denver.



One would think so, but only the SouthWest interviews involved much in the way of "guided discussion." The others were all TMAAT questions.

That said, I did interview prep for the last three of my in-person interviews. The people doing my interview prep have always had good things to say, and seemed shocked when I didn't get the nod.



I do.



I would have thought that, as well. The subject of a degree would not come up. Again, there was no guided discussion, only TMAAT.



It doesn't matter. I'm not eligible to reapply for a year, by which point that will all be over again.

And nobody else has responded to my apps this year.
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All I can say is I am surprised as well, you’re very well read, you explain things on this website very well, you seem to have the right mindset and if you conduct yourself as you explain while at work, I have nothing except I truly feel for you. I just don’t want to see you leave the industry again, we need pilots that care about their job and those around them. For real

I’m not going to be the person to say get the degree, I remember your arguments illustrated previously and no need to go down that road again.
 
To be clear, at this point I don't think this is fixable. I've dropped so many thousands of dollars on these airline interviews now, between prep and suits and dress shoes and haircuts, logbook printing, hotels ... etc. I've spent precious days off to do them (the interview in Denver turned a five day on, two day off, five day on part of the month into a ten-day-on part of the month.)

It's an old saw, but someone defines insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, and I think I'm there.
 
JDean3204 said:
All I can say is I am surprised as well, you’re very well read, you explain things on this website very well, you seem to have the right mindset and if you conduct yourself as you explain while at work, I have nothing except I truly feel for you. I just don’t want to see you leave the industry again, we need pilots that care about their job and those around them. For real
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Honestly, thank you. I don't want to leave the industry again, but I can't continue on like this.
 
The problem has to be in the TMAAT questions then….

Is there anything that you have a hard time explaining, or felt the prep companies diverted you away from the true wayYOU wanted to express a given situation??

That’s the last question I’ll ask, again don’t give up, I mean that.
 
JDean3204 said:
The problem has to be in the TMAAT questions then….

Is there anything that you have a hard time explaining, or felt the prep companies diverted you away from the true wayYOU wanted to express a given situation??
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Not really. Actually, most of the people doing prep just tried to help me reformat my answers so that I could hit all of the stupid points (empathy, humility, leadership, etc) on the grading rubric in a "STAR" format, and to recognize that the questions asked might be more broad than the question itself implied.

The people doing prep seemed satisfied with my answers.

JDean3204 said:
That’s the last question I’ll ask, again don’t give up, I mean that.
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This was my last chance. At what point am I allowed to give up? When I've spent myself on debt for hotels for these interviews to be told "no" time and time again? When someone comes on here to post my obituary from my company's website?

Frankly, I get the impression that they prefer the DUI hires. :p
 
🦈💜 said:
Not really. Actually, most of the people doing prep just tried to help me reformat my answers so that I could hit all of the stupid points (empathy, humility, leadership, etc) on the grading rubric in a "STAR" format, and to recognize that the questions asked might be more broad than the question itself implied.

The people doing prep seemed satisfied with my answers.



This was my last chance. At what point am I allowed to give up? When I've spent myself on debt for hotels for these interviews to be told "no" time and time again? When someone comes on here to post my obituary from my company's website?

Frankly, I get the impression that they prefer the DUI hires. :p
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This is going to sound dark… but yes. As long as you’re alive and well, there is a chance. So it may not be this one, it may be after a year wait, you may have to keep at it with your current employer while you wait. Guess what, more time to continue to mentor and gain more stories for the TMAAT. But if you’re still breathing, you’re still in the game.

Perspective change, many are trying to get on where you’re employed now and are getting shot down. The schedule sucks, I get it, just don’t lose the war because this particular battle sucks and the last few battles didn’t go according to plan.

If you walk away again, that really will be the nail in the coffin of the 121 career and you’ll have to be okay with that until your last breath.

Okay I’ll see myself out now
 
I’ve been where you’ve been. I got the thanks but no thanks from my number 1 choice (UPS) when I decided to leave Kalitta. I was devastated. I sulked for a couple of days allowing myself to feel bad, then I got back on the horse to prep some more. A couple months later I had a CJO with Delta and United.

I still think about that interview with UPS and what I did wrong. Out of the three I felt as if it was my best one so again I was very surprised when I didn’t get it. You can let this failure define your aviation career or you can use it as motivation to propel it.

The best thing that happened to me was my number one choice to say no. I wanted to prove to them and myself that they made a major mistake. I firmly believe I’m at an airline that fits my personality and I’m happy here. I’m only here because of my previous interview failure.
 
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