The whole “system” needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. One of the first steps needs to be taking Aeromedical out of the criminal justice system. Get convicted of DUI and you’re done as a professional pilot. It’s not that hard to not drink and drive to protect a multi-million dollar career. Arrests being reported for the Aeromedical division to retry themselves isn’t okay. I’m just as likely to be pulled over by a cop on a power trip than anyone else, but I’m also confident enough in the criminal justice system (despite it still being extremely imperfect and in need of reform) to think that not drinking and driving is a pretty good way to avoid a DUI conviction. Only one of these should be a career-ending event.
Southwest pilot arrested in SAV
- Thread starter Puckgoalie
- Start date
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I'd be extremely reluctant to go as far as that. But I do agree with you that Aeromedical needs a ground up rebuild. Most certainly in the realm of pilot mental health which just as a guess from observations over 20 years, is likely the main contributing factor to these alcohol incidents.
I mean, when the folks in charge have the “we didn’t get sad, we just drank our problems away like real men” attitude this is what you get. It also should be easier to get a medical back after a depression diagnosis than after a DUI. One of these is stepping up and getting help for your mental health and the other is the result of untreated mental health issues.
HJB
Well-Known Member
I’m really glad I don’t have the addiction gene. I couldn’t imagine struggling with alcohol and have it thrown in my face literally everywhere you go. If I had to guess this probably isn’t the first overnight this guy has had where he’s had one too many, and I wish he could have gotten the help he needed. I don’t like what he did, or the danger he put his passengers and crew through, but I absolutely feel sorry for him.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
You really can’t refuse a test without the Feds getting involved. Whether it’s in the jetway or on the side of I-5.
Alcoholism is fickle. He may have been legally drunk, but may not have actually felt drunk.
Years ago, when I was a much, much heavier and consistent drinker, I’d feel fine in the morning but knew if I got in the car and got pulled over, I probably could have easily passed a field sobriety check (which is used to determine probable cause) but would most likely exceed the BAC limit during a blood draw. The classic moniker of “I can hold my liquor”
If he had “Alcohol Dependence” chances are that he had been drinking, finally felt that he should stop because he was approaching the legal time limit, but his BAC may have been so high that there was no way he’d be under near the 0.04 BAC FAA limit or his employer’s probable “no traceable amount” rule like a lot of us have. The thing with “dependence” is that the levels that would absolutely leave the average person blotto and passed-out on a park bench may feel like a mild buzz. But, at some point north of there, JENGAAAAA!
Or, as he’s gotten older, his body doesn’t metabolize alcohol the way it used to because of something physiological.
But I don’t know, after seeing what I’ve seen, I won’t judge, but I hope he has a circle of good friends and/or supportive family to get him through the next steps to recovery.
Alcoholism is fickle. He may have been legally drunk, but may not have actually felt drunk.
Years ago, when I was a much, much heavier and consistent drinker, I’d feel fine in the morning but knew if I got in the car and got pulled over, I probably could have easily passed a field sobriety check (which is used to determine probable cause) but would most likely exceed the BAC limit during a blood draw. The classic moniker of “I can hold my liquor”
If he had “Alcohol Dependence” chances are that he had been drinking, finally felt that he should stop because he was approaching the legal time limit, but his BAC may have been so high that there was no way he’d be under near the 0.04 BAC FAA limit or his employer’s probable “no traceable amount” rule like a lot of us have. The thing with “dependence” is that the levels that would absolutely leave the average person blotto and passed-out on a park bench may feel like a mild buzz. But, at some point north of there, JENGAAAAA!
Or, as he’s gotten older, his body doesn’t metabolize alcohol the way it used to because of something physiological.
But I don’t know, after seeing what I’ve seen, I won’t judge, but I hope he has a circle of good friends and/or supportive family to get him through the next steps to recovery.
I’d go as far to say that our country treats mental health like sex. Something we all have to deal with, we don’t talk about it, don’t want to hear about it, and if the subject comes up “OMG, END OF THE WORLD! PERVERTS!”
We don’t take vacations, we live to work, the first question we ask at a party is “what do you do for a living?” and we let things linger.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
“Hey, get out of the road!”
“Hey a—hole, get out of the road!”
Discuss, discuss!
Stopped riding road bikes more than ten years ago and sold both really nice titanium custom geo road bikes 9 years ago. Mostly because of this deep seated rage that has consumed most motorists. Probably again due to phones and the mental health issues you described.
Although the area I live in is littered with logging roads and I've been considering buying a gravel bike but don't really feel like spending the money at the moment. I think the poop is about to hit the fan.
CFIT99
because of the implication...
I don't disagree with any of that...and for good reason there are mechanics to help someone.
I was merely stating that (if he is an alcoholic) the wellbeing of the passengers doesn't come into play, not as in he thought about it and decided that he would rather throw a few back...nope..the the wellbeing of himself and the passengers aren't in the top 10 things he is thinking about, they're not thought about at all...hell of a disease
Roger Roger
I am le tired
I wish we as a culture did a lot more on the preventative side of addiction, for all these substances. Whatever it takes to keep someone from getting hooked, it’s far, far better and more economical than dealing with them afterwards.
And this right here is it. There absolutely shouldn’t be a FAA-way blessed way back to a medical after a DUI (there shouldn’t be a 3rd class and there should be a far higher standard for people flying the general public). There should be a way to get proactive mental and physical healthcare without risking your livelihood. It’s a bass-ackwards situation.
CFIT99
because of the implication...
interesting take..but ok
FWIW...addiction therapy falls under mental/pysch healthcare so you agree more than you think...
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
If the poop hits the fan money ain't going to do much good anyway. Might as well have a nice new gravel bike to ride & enjoy.
The Esker Lorax Ti is my new precious I'm lusting after. Oh yes, it will be mine.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
He will have plenty of people in the legal process and his personal life to judge him. Sounds like he took the crew out and then had his own afterparty, based on what he told the cops. Rough situation, but part of the reason I quit drinking on trips (which eventually lead to stopping drinking in general). If I am ever accused by a random TSA agent or passenger, I would immediately ask for a breathalyzer and blood test and call off the trip. With social media, you never know who is watching and what you will be accused of, so I just try to remain unimpeachable when it comes to drinking on the job.
I'll still go to the random generic Irish bar with the captain, but I'm having water or a Diet Coke.
I don't think this is really possible.
I’m totally for addiction therapy. But well before being convicted of endangering others by operating a vehicle under the influence. I remember reading some stats about how many times someone’s usually driven drunk before getting caught and…it was scary.
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
I’m a HIMS peer monitor at my company. My family along with my wife’s family have a history of addiction. That was one of my reasons for volunteering(wanted something more personal). Seeing it up firsthand I can tell you the destructive power of addiction. I give the HIMS new hire presentation and explain how the process works when entering the program. It is a very long and at times complicated/difficult process. With that in mind it helps those who need it. Not sure of SWA but at BlueJuice even if you get caught and are fired, the company will still send you to rehab to get help. This guy ‘effd up and has a long road ahead. He isn’t the 1st and won’t be the last pilot to do this.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I once read an account of an EMT that had rolled an ambulance while responding to a call. He had blood drawn after the accident and it said he was above 0.04 BAC. He was confused because he'd last consumed alcohol more than 48hrs prior to the accident. He was a bit banged up from the accident and stayed in the hospital for a few days and they ran all sorts of tests on him. His Fire Department fired him for the BAC. Turned out he had stage IV pancreatic cancer and apparently his body had not processed the alcohol. He died within a few months so I'm unsure if he felt vindicated after the doctors figured it out but I hope his family gets some solace from the knowledge that he was not drunk on the job. I guess the point is you can be very responsible and your own body might betray you. It's a sad tale and while my interaction with him was similar to the folks I interact with here (he was an anti-semite) his death was unexpected and despite our differences we got along okay. I don't miss him but his tale is a prompt for responsible people to have a more than casual relationship with your doctor, if they need to draw blood or check your oil the dirty way that's what you're paying them for.
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CFIT99
because of the implication...
I’ve heard similar stats, interested to hear the stats on who volunteered vs voluntold to go to HIMS