SFO - we are in training, mistakes will happen

GolfChuck said:
We have pro-standards but it is worthless and mostly deals with internal conflict anyway. Controllers (much like pilots) all think they know everything, and this includes the management and support specialists who develop training curricula. Our training basically consists of the regulations being read to us in power point form followed by simulation training that was developed by a controller or team of controllers with no background in education, followed by on the job training.

Imagine learning to fly whatever rig you fly now with no actual piloting experience until you sit down in the cockpit with a load of pax in the back. I've heard people say that the majority of controllers come up through smaller facilities, but that is not my experience. Anyone at a center probably started with zero experience at that center or another one. When I trained at the core-30 the majority of controllers there came up through there (this is starting to change but 10 years after the placement rules were changed). Furthermore, even if a controller does start at a smaller facility, the differences between a level 5 class D airport and a level 11 class B one are night and day, there is not a whole lot of direct skill translation, and what little there is is rendered moot because if you are an experienced transfer they reduce the number of training hours you are allotted to certify.
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Sounds similar for aviation.

I wish we had Pro Stans 2.0 … with teeth.

The only time I’ve used them, the person in question literally cursed-out the PS rep that contacted him. But he still lives.
 
derg said:
Sounds similar for aviation.

I wish we had Pro Stans 2.0 … with teeth.

The only time I’ve used them, the person in question literally cursed-out the PS rep that contacted him. But he still lives.
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I like to call that management. I’ve done a lot of disciplinary work and worked with Pro Stan’s a lot. Pro Stan’s is a get out of jail free card, if you spit on it and rip it up, well then that’s FAFO time.
 
Guess I’m lucky, have had no problems with ATC at all. Whether tower, RAPCON or the few times I talk to an ARTCC in a month. Amazing reading here and seeing videos of all these various problematic interactions others seem to experience, sometimes often,
 
MikeD said:
Guess I’m lucky, have had no problems with ATC at all. Whether tower, RAPCON or the few times I talk to an ARTCC in a month. Amazing reading here and seeing videos of all these various problematic interactions others seem to experience, sometimes often,
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I was in the OCC a few hours ago and our NYC operation is in full freaking meltdown.
 
derg said:
I was in the OCC a few hours ago and our NYC operation is in full freaking meltdown.
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Top number is what we’re supposed to have. Bottom number is what we do have. And from 1900-2330L it’s down to 1. I was supposed to have overtime today but I called out. I’m not working a single minute of OT during the shutdown.
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
And yet again.


G650??? Isn’t this thing the most technologically advanced Corpie Jet out there, with a literal airport map displayed right in front of you as a moving map?

BAD time to confuse crossing the 28s with the 01s.



Oh Corpies



View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mebad1g9Tsk
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WSHR alert today reported end of the runway in LGA, >40 airliners in line and 2 corpies sent it. Couldn’t believe it. Just a different breed I guess
 
derg said:
I was in the OCC a few hours ago and our NYC operation is in full freaking meltdown.
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Ayyo!!! I DOT 3 hour back to the gate as I was NUMBER 1!!!!! At the end of 13 in LGA. I’m sure someone else here did too, since it was every 5 planes DOT3 to 1 that was approved to takeoff.

What a tease!!! And this was all BEFORE the thunderstorm even showed up. Mind boggling stuff. Needless to say - no I never made it out.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Top number is what we’re supposed to have. Bottom number is what we do have. And from 1900-2330L it’s down to 1. I was supposed to have overtime today but I called out. I’m not working a single minute of OT during the shutdown.
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I was a 10am departure thought we are fine. Got to #3 on DD fairly quick. Never thought I wouldn’t make it out. Weather was fine for departures but we were told all the fixes were shut down. When one would open, 2 could barely get out before it closed again. Weather didn’t seem that bad in the morning, I couldn’t wrap my head around why they closed all of them but maybe this is why. As the hours went on the weather then became a LOT worse.
 
tcco94 said:
Ayyo!!! I DOT 3 hour back to the gate as I was NUMBER 1!!!!! At the end of 13 in LGA. I’m sure someone else here did too, since it was every 5 planes DOT3 to 1 that was approved to takeoff.

What a tease!!! And this was all BEFORE the thunderstorm even showed up. Mind boggling stuff. Needless to say - no I never made it out.
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In all fairness, if it doesn't have windshear detection....

That's what my friend used to say when flying turboprops for a 121 carrier.

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CFI A&P said:
In all fairness, if it doesn't have windshear detection....

That's why my friend used to say when flying turboprops for a 121 carrier.
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Fair - 20 minutes later Endeavor gave it a go on the runway. Didn’t like what he saw. They asked Delta behind will he takeoff? He said no. Then they asked “will anyone in line no matter where you are takeoff?” To which no one responded.
 
tcco94 said:
I was a 10am departure thought we are fine. Got to #3 on DD fairly quick. Never thought I wouldn’t make it out. Weather was fine for departures but we were told all the fixes were shut down. When one would open, 2 could barely get out before it closed again. Weather didn’t seem that bad in the morning, I couldn’t wrap my head around why they closed all of them but maybe this is why. As the hours went on the weather then became a LOT worse.
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That was a ZNY staffing issue most likely. They were so short the other day that EWR arrivals on the Williamsport were all rerouted to ZBW and the Flossi arrival around ZNY airspace
 
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