Air India plane crash

The engine fuel controls were switched from RUN to CUTOFF at approximately the same time, but each engine's controls were switched from CUTOFF to RUN about four seconds apart.
 
tomokc said:
The engine fuel controls were switched from RUN to CUTOFF at approximately the same time, but each engine's controls were switched from CUTOFF to RUN about four seconds apart.
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Maybe. Probably. I mean I buy the notion that someone freaked out about some engine parameter being exceeded and went straight to "MULT ENG STALL/FAIL", but I'm not ready to sign off on it. Pretty much all of us got juked by one AI fabrication or another, previously. Probity and patience are even more important (and in shorter supply) than they were before.
 
knot4u said:
I agree. My point is what actually caused the engines to shut down? It's not as if the FDR actually records the physical position of the switches, it records their output (run or cutoff) digitally and that's great but weird things happen that seem so inconceivable that the explanation is the stuff books are written about. I'd agree that at this point one of two things happened, either someone reached over and shut the engines down or something else effected those switches that shut the engines off. I'm not ready to place blame until we know all of the facts. I guess because Boeing and the NTSB has been involved and no emergency AD's or newsletters have been issued it looks like it must've been one of the crew but I'm not an expert and I'll wait to hear what they have to say after they've chased down every other possibility. Their job isn't trying to place blame, it's finding the actual cause of an accident.
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Oh I see what you're getting at now. Yeah IDK how that will be determined.
 
Inverted said:
We don't know if the engines rolled back before the switches were moved to cutoff do we?
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Seems clear as day to me:

"The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec."
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Seems clear as day to me:

"The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec."
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So where in there does it say what thrust was doing when they did that? Did they shut down perfectly good engines? Or did they rollback for some reason?
 
Malko said:
Is there some sort of gate to flipping on/off? Lifting action required?
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No. If a flight attendant farts in their general direction of turbulence rears its ugly head they immediately fall down to the cutoff position, because of gravity. Are you serious?
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Oh I see what you're getting at now. Yeah IDK how that will be determined.
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The report says one of the pilots realized the switches were in cutoff and asked the other why he had flipped them off, so I'm going to assume the switches/levers were physically manipulated.

Don't those switches make a pretty audible sound when they're flipped?
 
Inverted said:
So where in there does it say what thrust was doing when they did that? Did they shut down perfectly good engines? Or did they rollback for some reason?
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I'm assuming the peak airspeed was caused by the perfectly good motors generating thrust, before they were turned off.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Seems clear as day to me:

"The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec."
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I don't remember reading anything in there that directly discussed engine operating parameters, other than the part talking about the thrust levers being forward in the takeoff position (or some words to that effect). Agree with what you are inferring here, but it isn't explicitly stated that the engines were operating normally before the switches moved to cutoff....unless I missed something skimming. To be clear, I do think, and I have thought since the initial video was released, that the engines were functioning normally.....havent seen any evidence whatsoever to conclude otherwise. I'd include the RAT deployment in the category of "not evidence of engine malfunction" as well.

But to me, it seems quite strange that someone would just accidentally do this. I dunno, stranger things have happened, but normally people do things for a reason, even if that reason proves to be an erroneous perception. But who knows, people do crazy things with flap levers in WB airplanes sometimes too. Fast hands?
 
Boris Badenov said:
Maybe. Probably. I mean I buy the notion that someone freaked out about some engine parameter being exceeded and went straight to "MULT ENG STALL/FAIL", but I'm not ready to sign off on it. Pretty much all of us got juked by one AI fabrication or another, previously. Probity and patience are even more important (and in shorter supply) than they were before.
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Patience? I WANT IT NOW!
 
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