Alaska Hawaiian Merger Serious Version

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
You know you don’t work at Spirit anymore, right? I’ll do it. Over 500 grand a year, yeah I’ll do it.

(Assuming I’m not fatigued by adding an additional 2 hrs).
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I'd do it if I felt like we could just get to the end of the trip, or get some people home rather than stranding them for a night. I don't think the money part of it would factor into my decision making.
 
BobDDuck said:
When it's 4:30 in the morning, sometimes it is hard to know if you will be fatigued in 15 hours when you are dealing with massive thunderstorms over the equator and an Indonesian controller that isn't being very helpful.
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These are widebody problems :) I can’t relate. Though I would think my mid flight nap would keep me going at hour 15.
 
///AMG said:
I'd do it if I felt like we could just get to the end of the trip, or get some people home rather than stranding them for a night. I don't think the money part of it would factor into my decision making.
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If money is factoring into aeronautical decision-making, it’s time to hand in that license because they’re going to kill someone.

I can’t tell you how many people “pressed on”, flew unairworthy airplanes, “dipped below”, “gotta penetrate that line at some point” and anywhere from pooping themselves NOT in the vicinity of a toilet to having their aircraft disassemble itself over the span of a few miles over west Texas.
 
Let me clarify my comments. At my regional which was the lowest paying RJ job at the time, we were allowed to refuse one extension a month. I landed DTW once and they put a GRR turn on me. I refused the extension. Even though I was fit, ready, fresh. That was a place where in my 4.5 yrs I got zero profit share, zero bonus, and served a majority of my time under a 1999 contract where every flight that went over block, we were not paid for the first 15 minutes extra.


Today, at my shop we don’t really do line holder extension add-ons. But if I land in LA and they put a SFO turn on me, assuming I’m fit, fresh, ready, I’ll absolutely do it for them. I’ve been well taken care of here, I’d scratch their back in return.


Again, assuming legally fit, fresh, ready to go. Not going to compromise safety for completion.



Hope that clarifies it.
 
derg said:
If money is factoring into aeronautical decision-making, it’s time to hand in that license because they’re going to kill someone.

I can’t tell you how many people “pressed on”, flew unairworthy airplanes, “dipped below”, “gotta penetrate that line at some point” and anywhere from pooping themselves NOT in the vicinity of a toilet to having their aircraft disassemble itself over the span of a few miles over west Texas.
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My previous employer had a 2 hour pay, no credit 'incentive' for extending a FAR FDP. I never accepted one in five years despite that. Spirit Crew Scheduling, at that time, tracked both accepted and declined extensions because "I can see why this information might be helpful to the Company someday," but my perusal of that data showed most everyone there hit the end (y'know, when the scientists say you're going to be tired) and went "nope."

The last one SkyWest tried to make me do, the conversation ended with: "I am the Captain, whose concurrence is required, and I do not concur." We were 1) at the end of my combined FDP plus RAP (seriously!), 2) stuck in a station with no online maintenance where 3) we had hit a bird on the way in, which means maintenance action was due, and they couldn't even find a contract guy at that time of the evening on a weekend.

Naturally, Crew Suppression looked like this for a second:
surprised-pikachu.gif


And then threats regarding calls from Managers on Duty and Chief Pilots and the like ensued (none of which transpired, as Crew Suppression gave up and went on to the next, likely far more gullible and spineless, target). They dicked around looking for a mechanic, then put us into rest around 10pm, well off the end of even my extended FAR FDP limit. We showed up the next morning, mid-morning and coffees in hand, after our very pleasant FAR minimum rest and went and did our thing.
 
If I remember correctly back in my PSA days if you did not accept an extension they expected you to say you were fatigued. That of course resulted in a conference call right there on the spot with a CP. According to the CP it was not an intimidation tactic but a way to try to correct the possible fatigue cause. Yeah right was my usual response.
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
If I remember correctly back in my PSA days if you did not accept an extension they expected you to say you were fatigued. That of course resulted in a conference call right there on the spot with a CP. According to the CP it was not an intimidation tactic but a way to try to correct the possible fatigue cause. Yeah right was my usual response.
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Despite various caterwauling and vague promises of retaliation, I never heard a word about it.

I was never terribly worried about availing myself of the fatigue program, though they only paid about 20-30% of those events systemwide in my time. I bet that's closer to 0% now.
 
this whole Bay Tour safety discussion is very lol for an airport whose entire operation depended on pilots turning the TCAS to TA only for the past… 15 years?
I’ve gotten many RAs in SFO on arrival and departure (more than any other airport in the country before they changed the approaches) but never got a single one on a bay tour.
 
bp said:
this whole Bay Tour safety discussion is very lol for an airport whose entire operation depended on pilots turning the TCAS to TA only for the past… 15 years?
I’ve gotten many RAs in SFO on arrival and departure (more than any other airport in the country before they changed the approaches) but never got a single one on a bay tour.
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Lack of a RA on a tour does not imply safe. Just as a lack of an accident does not imply a just safety system.
 
bp said:
amazing how it’s perfectly normal to tool around in level flight at low altitude while in radar contact during the arrival phase but it’s unsafe after departure
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I think it’s the deviation around the normal corridors. In most cases, it’s getting a VFR climb out while on an IFR clearance.



Whatever. I’m surprised your guys shops don’t have any clear restrictions against it. Might take an incident before that kinda thing changes, that’s how it usually goes.
 
bp said:
this whole Bay Tour safety discussion is very lol for an airport whose entire operation depended on pilots turning the TCAS to TA only for the past… 15 years?
I’ve gotten many RAs in SFO on arrival and departure (more than any other airport in the country before they changed the approaches) but never got a single one on a bay tour.
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between the new 28L and just now barely reaching pre-Covid levels of traffic, it seems downright civilized compared to the tales of the olden days
 
Autothrust Blue said:
The last one SkyWest tried to make me do, the conversation ended with: "I am the Captain, whose concurrence is required, and I do not concur."
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Oh settle down Denzel. This isn’t Crimson Tide.



Let me guess your next line:



“And furthermore, you continue upon this course, and insist upon this action, I will act, backed by the rules of precedence, and my union…. Oh wait, I don’t have one.”
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Oh settle down Denzel. This isn’t Crimson Tide.



Let me guess your next line:



“And furthermore, you continue upon this course, and insist upon this action, I will act, backed by the rules of precedence, and my union…. Oh wait, I don’t have one.”
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So you are ok with ceding your authority to crew scheduling regarding fatigue? Dude was illegal, done, can't work anymore and yet was getting pushed to keep going.

You do know that the flying public pays you a lot of money to make decisions to keep them safe right? Even if it inconveniences them, your employer, and maybe yourself.

The sooner you pull the fatigue lever looking forward the easier it is for your company to recover. The last fatigue call I made was covered with another crew that started their duty day seven hours after us, had I sat around and waited we would have become illegal anyway and scheduling might not have had the time to cover the trip.

Do not let scheduling force you into a bad position or decision, fatigue is like alcohol and little bit can be too much.
 
arkflyr said:
So you are ok with ceding your authority to crew scheduling regarding fatigue? Dude was illegal, done, can't work anymore and yet was getting pushed to keep going.

You do know that the flying public pays you a lot of money to make decisions to keep them safe right? Even if it inconveniences them, your employer, and maybe yourself.

The sooner you pull the fatigue lever looking forward the easier it is for your company to recover. The last fatigue call I made was covered with another crew that started their duty day seven hours after us, had I sat around and waited we would have become illegal anyway and scheduling might not have had the time to cover the trip.

Do not let scheduling force you into a bad position or decision, fatigue is like alcohol and little bit can be too much.
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It was a Denzel joke.



Fly safe, healthy, not fatigued.
 
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