Glider stuff: 2024 Sports Class Nationals
- Thread starter invadertim
- Start date
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
I fly a bit, both gliders and tow planes. Nothing at this level though.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
One of the pictures has a motor glider, is that enough power to launch? It looks like it's electric, where are the batteries and how much do they weigh? Like I said, lots of questions...
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
we do Aero tow here at CCSC, in the background of this picture you can see a few of our tow planes, all PA-25 Pawnees
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
It’s gas, all German engineering on that one. It’s a self launcher, that whole prop mast folds up and stows away in flight. There's one there that has the little turbine engine fitted, I don’t think it can self launch though.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Definitely spoiled me towing in Pawnees. And then the club got a Cessna, because taildragger pilots were getting hard to find that the insurance company liked. I do not like towing in a Cessna.. The Pawnee is everything you want in a tug though.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Back in the olden times we had a tenant with a German motor glider. It had an enormous wingspan and a tiny fuselage with a very small engine that was equipped with a feathering two blade prop. We had T-hangars but not big enough for this oddball so we stored in what was basically a very large carport attached to the terminal. The owner was very fastidious about his airplane and because it wasn't completely enclosed in a hangar he either made, or had made, a cover for the wings and canopy out of some canvas. We were all warned to sort of give that thing a wide berth. It was not uncommon to arrive at 6am and find him fiddling with his airplane and every once in a while, on a nice morning, he'd need a hand to pull it out of the shade and he'd fly off to somewhere for a few hours and then return with a grin on his face and a need for help to push it back in. He never tipped and I never asked questions, he was not what you might describe as friendly. This all happened at KBUR with airline traffic and corporate jets flying in and out. Like I said it was the olden times.
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
Yeah, the Pawnee’s are a hoot, kinda hard on the knees though. I’ve done some competition towing, but it’s been 15 years and I’m still getting towing proficiency back. So for now I’m running wings.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
A few hours with a glider CFI is a wonderfully humbling and educating experience.
Gliders expose weaknesses in your game. Find a gliderport and spend a weekend improving your chops.
Gliders expose weaknesses in your game. Find a gliderport and spend a weekend improving your chops.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Not teaching in gliders these days, but as a CFIG - I can sort of understand why. I found it far more difficult than teaching in airplanes.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I took my single engine commercial checkride with a DPE who was an aerobatic glider pilot who went to the international competitions every year, and routinely won his age bracket (because he was in his 70s and there were very few people in it). He failed me on lazy eights.
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
A few more pictures from today. They didn’t get a contest day in today, conditions just didn’t develop enough to make it a good soaring day. Smaller grid, about half the field left with no flying the last two days and today not looking very good. We did launch the field, but after about 90 minutes it just wasn’t developing, so the day was called.
One of the Pawnee’s, you might notice it has a muffler fitted; all our Pawnee’s have them, cuts the noise a fair bit.
Wilmington soaring forecast
The contest grid
Supposedly there’s a radial engine buried in here
Just for you knot
One of the Pawnee’s, you might notice it has a muffler fitted; all our Pawnee’s have them, cuts the noise a fair bit.
Wilmington soaring forecast
The contest grid
Supposedly there’s a radial engine buried in here
Just for you knot
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I think someone should spend $3B to develop a quiet prop that will make the neighbors happy. God forbid the house they bought next to an airport might be assaulted by the offensive noise when they're watching Fox News, I'll assume they'd go outside and shake an angry fist into the air and display their displeasure.
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
We have in fact bought and tested a "quiet" prop, it was a 4 bladed composite prop. It did reduce noise, however it didn't hold up, it cracked and is now a hanger decoration. I think we're waiting on the next gen to try again. All this stuff come from Germany, they take their soaring, and noise reduction, very seriously over there.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Flying tow or boxing the wake will certainly bring out your worst.
They also do a ton of winch launching, and only in the last few years have dedicated winches been something of a "thing" in the US. Yea, there have always been, ah, "conversion" winches dragging steel cable, but those are less than optimum, and there is no small amount of "manual dexterity" on the part of the operator. The new, dedicated units are bad-ass.
I seem to recall it also has a lot to do with winch rope technology, believe it or not, which is letting you do things with winches you couldn't do with cable. I've never done any winch launches, but I know some who have, and they all say it's a carnival ride on the way up.
That said, Pawnees are awesome.
invadertim
In my experence, its always my fault.
We’ve also tried winching at CCSC, it’s got some issues…The first real problem is the size and layout of our field. It’s a bit short, 3700ft I seem to think, which is just barely long enough, but really you want more. The second issue is the field isn’t flat, it drops off a bit at the far end as seen in the pictures. This means the winch operator can’t see the far end of the field. It also means you can drag your cable on the ground, which is hard on the cable and the field. These things make using a winch hard, but not impossible.
Then there’s the gliders themselves, all our club equipment is built for aero-tow. For those unfamiliar with gliders, you can put the gliders tow hook in two places; what is know as a CG hook, or a nose or aero-tow hook. You can do both methods of launch with either type, it’s just not optimal if you use the wrong type. Winches and ground tow favor CG hooks, you can really pitch up, like ~45deg, to get max climb off a winch. The down side for aero-tow with a CG hook is during the first few seconds of your tow it’s very easy to veer off towards the weeds while being too slow for your controls to work. The gliders with CG hooks are also a bit less stable on aero-tow, increasing pilot workload. The aero-tow hooks don’t let you really crank the pitch up while winching, your fighting the downward pull of the winch with your elevator, so you only get about 20deg or so of pitch up, limiting your climb on tow. Many high performance gliders only come with CG hooks. There are a few gliders that have both types of hook, but they’re rare. It isn’t usually possible to convert one to the other after they’re built.
Aero-tows cost lots more, but they can take you to where the lift is, so you’re more likely to have a longer flight. A tow plane can also go and retrieve you if land out at a different airport. Then, someone has to fly the towplane, it’s fun but challenging. Tow pilots need several endorsements, as well as glider time, it can be hard to find qualified pilots to do it. Finally, it can be dangerous, the first guy I personally knew who died flying, died towing.
Winches favor launching into known reliable lift; either a “house” or common thermal, or into ridge or other orthographic lift. If you don’t have these things, you can get a lot of very short flights. Still a good thing for reps on take offs and landings. Winches are also dirt cheap, at least in comparison to aero-tow, the main cost of most flights is the tow. So if you’re flying in the mountains, or have lots of land, or just can’t afford a tow plane, winches are the way to go.
Then there’s the gliders themselves, all our club equipment is built for aero-tow. For those unfamiliar with gliders, you can put the gliders tow hook in two places; what is know as a CG hook, or a nose or aero-tow hook. You can do both methods of launch with either type, it’s just not optimal if you use the wrong type. Winches and ground tow favor CG hooks, you can really pitch up, like ~45deg, to get max climb off a winch. The down side for aero-tow with a CG hook is during the first few seconds of your tow it’s very easy to veer off towards the weeds while being too slow for your controls to work. The gliders with CG hooks are also a bit less stable on aero-tow, increasing pilot workload. The aero-tow hooks don’t let you really crank the pitch up while winching, your fighting the downward pull of the winch with your elevator, so you only get about 20deg or so of pitch up, limiting your climb on tow. Many high performance gliders only come with CG hooks. There are a few gliders that have both types of hook, but they’re rare. It isn’t usually possible to convert one to the other after they’re built.
Aero-tows cost lots more, but they can take you to where the lift is, so you’re more likely to have a longer flight. A tow plane can also go and retrieve you if land out at a different airport. Then, someone has to fly the towplane, it’s fun but challenging. Tow pilots need several endorsements, as well as glider time, it can be hard to find qualified pilots to do it. Finally, it can be dangerous, the first guy I personally knew who died flying, died towing.
Winches favor launching into known reliable lift; either a “house” or common thermal, or into ridge or other orthographic lift. If you don’t have these things, you can get a lot of very short flights. Still a good thing for reps on take offs and landings. Winches are also dirt cheap, at least in comparison to aero-tow, the main cost of most flights is the tow. So if you’re flying in the mountains, or have lots of land, or just can’t afford a tow plane, winches are the way to go.
mightynimbus
Well-Known Member
Many years ago I towed for a place with multiple Pawnees, he had put a "hush prop" on one of them,
I don't think it was that much quieter.
One day I was on the deck and that plane went by doing a tow,
I said "that sounds a bit off for some reason" there was no interest in my observation.
A day later I get a call that the prop had left the plane during a tow.
No injuries,(except prop and overspeed on engine) plenty high for both planes.
Turns out it needed to be re-torqued regularly, and it had not been,
it appeared to have been doing a bit of slapping around on the mating surface
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
The guy that taught me to tow in the Pawnee, died in a Pawnee. Dragging rags though, which to me, is even more dangerous than towing gliders.