121 guys, how does this happen? (AKA,Oh Delta)

It seems like if the cabin temp issues were existent during taxi then there must have been some kind of environmental control issue that running the apu may or may not have resolved.
 
Inverted said:
We have a cultural issue with firing APUs up at Eskimo. At VX we fired it up whenever we needed it and never had an issue in the back unless there was a deferred APU. On the 737 side it is much different, and on DHs I often find myself in the back, sweating. I will very easily and without issue, fire the APU up as soon as I walk on to an airplane if I feel it is too warm.

Letting it get to that point is not only unacceptable, I find it actionable. It is careless and reckless to operate a commercial airliner like that.
Click to expand...
Back in the 2017 time frame, AAG bought a bunch of $75,000 PCA carts for the QX operation. “APU usage is too high and is bad for the environment…you WILL use PCA’s at the stations” (and they made it a station decision).

That lasted a few months before that email made its way to the FAA…shortly there after it became a “please use the PCA’s, as long as it can maintain cabin temps”

AAG (and SeaTac for that matter) has a long history of making APU usage out to be the devil (like foosball).
 
SurferLucas said:
Back in the 2017 time frame, AAG bought a bunch of $75,000 PCA carts for the QX operation. “APU usage is too high and is bad for the environment…you WILL use PCA’s at the stations” (and they made it a station decision).

That lasted a few months before that email made its way to the FAA…shortly there after it became a “please use the PCA’s, as long as it can maintain cabin temps”

AAG (and SeaTac for that matter) has a long history of making APU usage out to be the devil (like foosball).
Click to expand...
That's funny, because isn't SFO supposed to be the Mecca of environmentalism in our country? Part of the MOU between the airlines and airport says you need airfield ops permission to fire up the APU more than 30 mins before departure. After the first 3 or 4 times that a pilot called me on the radio requesting to do so, and I called airport ops only to get "Lol I don't care, go for it" or "Uh, yeah you don't need to call", I realized I could just say "your discretion" and nothing would happen. On 80F*+ days, a lot of international widebodies would leave the APU running the whole turn. No one cared. Seems weird to me SEA would care more than SFO. Especially since up there they have less of those hot days than we do usually.

EDIT: To add, come to think of it, at SkyWest (at least when I was there 2008-2013), ramp wasn't even trained on PCAir and most jetways didn't have it, nor did we have a PCA cart laying around. On hot days they just left the APU going. I left before the ERJs days tho and I know the company got a lot...cheaper.
 
Last edited:
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I don’t care what Skywest’s policy is. The FO should feel empowered to run APU and packs if the CA isn’t there. Probably just a green horn case, but hopefully he learned for next time.
Click to expand...
As maybe the last skywester standing, FOs are totally empowered to run the APU. In this case, probably just a VERY green FO. For me, if there are people on the plane and there's no external air (or if the external air is inadequate), the APU is running.
 
STS-41B said:
Why the hell don’t airlines simply RUN THE APU between flights? I know I know. $$$$. But how much does it *actually* cost them? Surely less than the cost of the lawsuit that’d come from someone who suffered a heat stroke.
Click to expand...
Realistically speaking, any turbine burning jet-A and putting out three-phase is going to be less efficient than a ground air and shore power.

No excuses for inadequate cabin temperatures, but that doesn't require the APU to run.
 
At UPS they had an APU usage campaign and didn't want us to use the APU cause MX will give you ground power within 90 sec after block in. That was a joke. A pipe dream procedure some guy in an office dreamed up and sounds great to management but nobody gonna get those mechanics to be everywhere at once to get your ground power in 90 seconds. I tried it for a couple weeks and gave up.
 
DE727UPS said:
At UPS they had an APU usage campaign and didn't want us to use the APU cause MX will give you ground power within 90 sec after block in. That was a joke. A pipe dream procedure some guy in an office dreamed up and sounds great to management but nobody gonna get those mechanics to be everywhere at once to get your ground power in 90 seconds. I tried it for a couple weeks and gave up.
Click to expand...
LOL given the nature of UPS ops in SDF, I'm so sure a team of athletic mechanics is running from stand to stand plugging in each arrival during one of the busiest single airline arrival banks on earth. It's amazing what kind of ideas get thrown around. When Avantair was flying around and had lots of Piaggio flights between Bay Area airports for repositions, they used to call the local ATC facilities and demand to know why their flights between SFO/OAK/SJC/CCR/LVK were taking 20-30 mins sometimes when they "filed direct". I mean, you guys are running an airline, right?

There was a short-lived start-up that received some kind of authorization to fly medicine and certain purchases via drone around San Bruno near SFO and I applied to become an operator during the pandemic. Despite having backing from a bunch of big companies and looking all legit, when I interviewed and asked them how they planned to operate year-round with all that terrain, low vis, and strong winds the San Bruno hills have 8 months a year. The dude said, "I have no idea, that is why we're hiring pilots". Surprise; it never got off the ground.
 
ChasenSFO said:
That's funny, because isn't SFO supposed to be the Mecca of environmentalism in our country? Part of the MOU between the airlines and airport says you need airfield ops permission to fire up the APU more than 30 mins before departure. After the first 3 or 4 times that a pilot called me on the radio requesting to do so, and I called airport ops only to get "Lol I don't care, go for it" or "Uh, yeah you don't need to call", I realized I could just say "your discretion" and nothing would happen. On 80F*+ days, a lot of international widebodies would leave the APU running the whole turn. No one cared. Seems weird to me SEA would care more than SFO. Especially since up there they have less of those hot days than we do usually.

EDIT: To add, come to think of it, at SkyWest (at least when I was there 2008-2013), ramp wasn't even trained on PCAir and most jetways didn't have it, nor did we have a PCA cart laying around. On hot days they just left the APU going. I left before the ERJs days tho and I know the company got a lot...cheaper.
Click to expand...
You’ve been to SEA, I’ve seen you here ;)

There, at times, seems to be want to “out crazy SFO” here in the NW. During covid, WA State closed golf courses cause CA did it…not even Oregon closed theirs.

Plus, Alaskan has never met a virtue they weren’t willing to signal.
 
To be faaaaaaiiiirrrr.......OR did open up just to close back down a time or two in '21. Enough that the Gov found herself in hot water. I think there was a pretty strong alliance of knee-jerk reacting across the west coast. I remember being down in EUG that spring/summer, and people on the amazon trail would book it across the street (while being masked outdoors) to avoid another runner.
 
DE727UPS said:
At UPS they had an APU usage campaign and didn't want us to use the APU cause MX will give you ground power within 90 sec after block in. That was a joke. A pipe dream procedure some guy in an office dreamed up and sounds great to management but nobody gonna get those mechanics to be everywhere at once to get your ground power in 90 seconds. I tried it for a couple weeks and gave up.
Click to expand...
Nothing has changed, you'll be stunned to learn, I'm sure. The guys in CGN are *usually* on the spot (Ze Chermans sind sehr Efficient, ja?). And most east-Asian gateways are ok, too. But anywhere else, 90% of the C/As I fly with just tell me to crank it, and on the rare occasion that they don't, we sit there for 5 minutes with #4 running while the circus music plays in our heads.

I would love to see an experiment regarding how long it takes to get ground power in, say, Delhi. We might run out of fuel.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
The handful of times the “Man” called me at our mutual former employer were quickly resolved with “this was why, and I will probably do it again.” Or, in one case that involved a short flight, no autopilot and no ACARS that ended in a diversion and down line cancellation, “what the [bleep] did you expect?”

That said, MSP was a different place under some honest to goodness leadership (oppose management) when I worked there too, with conditions far more austere and severe than any of the blue-sky west-coast management dorks ever saw.
Click to expand...


Never heard anything from my direct reports about any of it, it was mainly dispatch, scheduling, those types.
 
guywhoflies said:
Speaking of those types, I flew with an LCP recently at our shop. We were United in everything we did, except for the APU.

First leg, we landed, cleared the runway, and I started the APU. He reached up, turned it off and said he wanted to save fuel. Umm, ok? A couple legs later, after landing in DEN, I waited and asked him if it was okay to start the APU as we were approaching the ramp. He said no and then told me roughly 10 seconds later that I could start the APU.

His goal was to time it so we pulled in the gate right as the two minute warm up was finished. It was 97 degrees and he was more worried about burning 100lbs of gas than paasenger comfort.
Click to expand...


10 seconds is probably not even 5lbs of gas :P
 
Acrofox said:
Realistically speaking, any turbine burning jet-A and putting out three-phase is going to be less efficient than a ground air and shore power.

No excuses for inadequate cabin temperatures, but that doesn't require the APU to run.
Click to expand...


The PCA, as long as it was working right, kept the 175 frigid!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
If those airline examples are Level 5 DSM type people, Corpies are Level 10 DSM. They’re so bad, the medical community is still writing that book ;)
Click to expand...

Show us on the doll where the corporate pilot hurt you. Did one roll up at Chilis and say "Your man is a bus driver, but lemme tell you girl, I'm a chauffeur and how you wanna roll? City bus or a limo?" :)
 
derg said:
Show us on the doll where the corporate pilot hurt you. Did one roll up at Chilis and say "Your man is a bus driver, but lemme tell you girl, I'm a chauffeur and how you wanna roll? City bus or a limo?" :)
Click to expand...

To this day, I can't work out what his vendetta is about. Best guess: he's angry that someone, somewhere, may have actually enjoyed flying an airplane, at some point, and he's working hard to point out that this was a Crime Against Humanity ("if I'm incapable of enjoying something obviously and uncomplicatedly fun, no one else should enjoy it, either", etc.).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top