Oh, American...

roundout said:
lol, you literally just admonished the FO for relinquishing the radios
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No. The story said the FO would just say “you have the radios.”


Presumably making the PF now do radios too.


I’ve had times as FO when the CA would just get on the radio during cruise for some random comment/thing (including replying to ride conditions). Who cares. I still did my job as PM and radios that leg.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I flew with a CA like that asking about rides with check on to new ATC frequencies.

You know what I did? My job as FO and asked for rides. How fragile egoes must be that you can’t key up and talk for 5 seconds. So what if he asked or talked on the radio himself when it came rides in the Flight Levels (a low risk, less busy environment).


In this country, CRM went from far authoritarian to far “we’re all equal and don’t hurt my feelings.” I’ve seen some stuff that was beyond crossing the line from respectful to disrespectful.
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Being a good FO doesn't equal being a doormat. Believe it or not, there are some Captains out there that like to see how far they can push someone, and sometimes throwing it back at them works wonders. We had two at QX that were both just raging hemeroids to fly with (both were BOI based).

It's really easy to just listen on freq, and see what everyone else is reporting. In fact, in most center's...when you check on, they tell you what the rides are like. You know why they do this...to stop everyone clogging up the frequency with "how are the rides".

Stop making mountains out of mole hills, and you'll be less likely to end up like Todd.
 
SurferLucas said:
Being a good FO doesn't equal being a doormat. Believe it or not, there are some Captains out there that like to see how far they can push someone, and sometimes throwing it back at them works wonders. We had two at QX that were both just raging hemeroids to fly with (both were BOI based).

It's really easy to just listen on freq, and see what everyone else is reporting. In fact, in most center's...when you check on, they tell you what the rides are like. You know why they do this...to stop everyone clogging up the frequency with "how are the rides".

Stop making mountains out of mole hills, and you'll be less likely to end up like Todd.
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I flew with a Horizon •. Initials were KH.


I’m a chameleon FO. I know for a fact that I will not be hanging out on the overnight / layover. Or even inside terminals. 2-3 hr break? I’ll see you at the gate. Long overnight? I’ll cya at van time. So my “putting up with” is limited to the flight time.

You wanna make a fools of yourself as a CA , go ahead. I’d just laugh inside. It’s always the same characters. I was at a small enough airlines that even the painful ones to fly with became tolerable / laid back once they flew with the same people a bunch.

As a CA I don’t ask for much, just common respect, courtesy, and do your job well.
 
MikeD said:
Could be worse, could be the guy who always reports smooth to whatever ride reports he’s asked for, just to invite others down to his flight level of misery.
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haha. This will probably be me one day. Let's just say I have been a slow learner when it comes to actually noticing when it is "bumpy". It's a-ok until we're getting the s*** kicked out of us in my mind. "Oh you want higher for this? Happy mother's day"
 
///AMG said:
haha. This will probably be me one day. Let's just say I have been a slow learner when it comes to actually noticing when it is "bumpy". It's a-ok until we're getting the s*** kicked out of us in my mind. "Oh you want higher for this? Happy mother's day"
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I’m the same way. Lots of captains I fly with are up and down, then back up, then up more, then back down into the 20s, rinse/repeat for 2 hours.

Meanwhile I’m over in the chump seat not even recognizing the ride is bumpy until I have to pick my coffee up off the tv tray so it doesn’t spill.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I flew with a CA like that asking about rides with check on to new ATC frequencies.

You know what I did? My job as FO and asked for rides. How fragile egoes must be that you can’t key up and talk for 5 seconds. So what if he asked or talked on the radio himself when it came rides in the Flight Levels (a low risk, less busy environment).


In this country, CRM went from far authoritarian to far “we’re all equal and don’t hurt my feelings.” I’ve seen some stuff that was beyond crossing the line from respectful to disrespectful.
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No ego here, well not much of one at least. :) I guess I don't understand when someone wants to argue with ATC or clog up an already congested frequency soliciting for ride reports. I know you can't tell from my post because I didn't include the fact that earlier in the trip a poor JAX controller was inundated with 7 airplanes holding for MCO and 4-5 others wanting to deviate into a hot warning area. I could barely even check in, and when the controller didn't respond to my request for ride reports I said to the Captain he might be a little busy. When the Captain started stepping all over other airplanes we got the "Everyone just stand by, I'll call you." Later in the trip we got a "I'm a little busy right now." from ZFW. I just sort of scratch my head with some people haven't figured out some of the basics after 40 years.
SurferLucas said:
Being a good FO doesn't equal being a doormat. Believe it or not, there are some Captains out there that like to see how far they can push someone, and sometimes throwing it back at them works wonders. We had two at QX that were both just raging hemeroids to fly with (both were BOI based).

It's really easy to just listen on freq, and see what everyone else is reporting. In fact, in most center's...when you check on, they tell you what the rides are like. You know why they do this...to stop everyone clogging up the frequency with "how are the rides".

Stop making mountains out of mole hills, and you'll be less likely to end up like Todd.
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Thanks, not sure who that is but I'm perfectly happy and enjoy my job. I even usually enjoy flying with some of these characters. I just figured I'd pass along a story about someone who would repeatedly jump in on the radio when they were PF since that's sort of what seems like what might have happened in Madison. :)
 
EDUC8-or said:
. I just sort of scratch my head with some people haven't figured out some of the basics after 40 years.
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Ride reports have about as much priority to ATC as VFR flight following does. And rightfully so. If the controller is busy, those become non-priorities.

A little situational awareness could go a long way for many pilots I’ve come across in my career; ones who seem to completely lack it, even after many years in the business as supposedly professional pilots.
 
P much any aircraft that has ADS-B is gonna have some kind of accelerometer. Bam, there’s your subjective measure of the ride quality all ready to be put out on Mode S along with the Lat/Long/Alt of where the observation was made.

cf. the FAA’s TAMDAR project.
 
Minuteman said:
P much any aircraft that has ADS-B is gonna have some kind of accelerometer. Bam, there’s your subjective measure of the ride quality all ready to be put out on Mode S along with the Lat/Long/Alt of where the observation was made.

cf. the FAA’s TAMDAR project.
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Did someone say "Widget Weather"? :)
 
Minuteman said:
P much any aircraft that has ADS-B is gonna have some kind of accelerometer. Bam, there’s your subjective measure of the ride quality all ready to be put out on Mode S along with the Lat/Long/Alt of where the observation was made.

cf. the FAA’s TAMDAR project.
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We have an app that includes turbulence forecasts and actual turbulence using an accelerometer in the aircraft. And another app to predict turbulence using the accelerometer in our iPads. Generally with the turbulence forecasts I've noticed if it says it's going to be bumpy it'll be bumpy. And if it says it's going to be smooth it might be smooth or it might be bumpy.

Using that information you can get a pretty decent overall picture of ride conditions, especially when there is a significant amount of traffic in your area.
 
SurferLucas said:
Being a good FO doesn't equal being a doormat. Believe it or not, there are some Captains out there that like to see how far they can push someone, and sometimes throwing it back at them works wonders. We had two at QX that were both just raging hemeroids to fly with (both were BOI based).
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This is true.

There was a captain in NYC, rhymes with Burt Coons, I'll use names I don't care. Who was absolutely notorious for being an ass to his copilots.

I don't chameleon nor do I argue. I just told him that if my performance isn't up to par, as is, I'm happy to step off the jet, but I'm not going to be berated. And the moment I feel like I'm being berated, put the relief FO in my seat, I'll revert to a deadhead and have myself replaced. And from that moment forward, it was like we were besties and he sprung for dinner and drinks in BRU — and we had a great working experience in CQ a few years later.

That's poor behavior and doesn't belong in the cockpit and I should have to do that because we're all professionals. Bet your sweet ass I will though! :)

He's retired. This will probably come up if he Googles himself (Hi Burt! You know exactly what I'm talking about!)
 
derg said:
This is true.

There was a captain in NYC, rhymes with Burt Coons, I'll use names I don't care. Who was absolutely notorious for being an ass to his copilots.

I don't chameleon nor do I argue. I just told him that if my performance isn't up to par, as is, I'm happy to step off the jet, but I'm not going to be berated. And the moment I feel like I'm being berated, put the relief FO in my seat, I'll revert to a deadhead and have myself replaced. And from that moment forward, it was like we were besties and he sprung for dinner and drinks in BRU — and we had a great working experience in CQ a few years later.

That's poor behavior and doesn't belong in the cockpit and I should have to do that because we're all professionals. Bet your sweet ass I will though! :)

He's retired. This will probably come up if he Googles himself (Hi Burt! You know exactly what I'm talking about!)
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This has got to be a generational thing.

I had this sim instructor for my first CQ at an airline. The instructor was absolute bag of ass holes. Next time I saw him I matched his energy and lent him my own sack o’ sphincters. It’s like that one thing was the secret code to unlock his respect. From then on he was one of favorite instructors.
 
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