737 goes down off Hawaii

Roger Roger said:
I guess. Maybe I’m the weird one by finding it weird
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I'm gonna' say this and be the odd one.

All of us approach things in different ways based upon our experience (life to this moment, developed morays/values).

You're not the "weird one," you're you - nothing more, nothing less.

For me, at least, all that's important is that you "do" you. No one has to agree with my opinion or understand my experience in life, and they are more than welcome to share the things they feel/believe based on what they have known of life within their lives.

Never apologize for being you. Let people know you for who you are and find the common ground, as you desire, wherein you can share a good drink and a fine steak and a friend, despite differences.
 
Roger Roger said:
I guess. Maybe I’m the weird one by finding it weird
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I used to read ASAP reports all the time, and just generally be interested in how guys are making mistakes in little airplanes, don’t know that I would listen to CVRs in sleds if that were a thing… but yeah… I get it.

if 207s had cvrs it would probably mostly be silence and overheard passenger Yupik convos or the sound of the pilot slurping coffee/putting a dip in…
 
ppragman said:
I used to read ASAP reports all the time, and just generally be interested in how guys are making mistakes in little airplanes, don’t know that I would listen to CVRs in sleds if that were a thing… but yeah… I get it.

if 207s had cvrs it would probably mostly be silence and overheard passenger Yupik convos or the sound of the pilot slurping coffee/putting a dip in…
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Again, the transcripts and the reports (both of which I read religiously for interesting/relevant accidents) say all I need to know. I don’t need to hear all the gory details, and I (and practically every one of us on here) don’t have the kind of training to extract more useful information from the audio than what the investigators have already done, in fact we’re more likely to put our own biases and inexperience doing accident analysis on top of it.
 
Roger Roger said:
Again, the transcripts and the reports (both of which I read religiously for interesting/relevant accidents) say all I need to know. I don’t need to hear all the gory details, and I (and practically every one of us on here) don’t have the kind of training to extract more useful information from the audio than what the investigators have already done, in fact we’re more likely to put our own biases and inexperience doing accident analysis on top of it.
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You might be surprised to learn that NTSB reports are often authored by non-pilots and military accident boards are primarily peer-based with members having little investigation training.

Accident reports often reflect the inexperience and biases of the investigators. More than that, they are inconsistent in their rigor and depth. They almost always get the final seconds right. Beyond that, we don’t know if we are going to get a novel or a short story .
 
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Roger Roger said:
Again, the transcripts and the reports (both of which I read religiously for interesting/relevant accidents) say all I need to know. I don’t need to hear all the gory details, and I (and practically every one of us on here) don’t have the kind of training to extract more useful information from the audio than what the investigators have already done, in fact we’re more likely to put our own biases and inexperience doing accident analysis on top of it.
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Ok, but that's you. I can look at the most horrific plane crash photos and not be bothered at all, even though I absolutely hate gore in general. CVR audio doesn't really bother me either for the same reason, though the 9\11 tapes of cellphones and stuff do bother me. All about perspective I guess. In the late 90s I was listening to CVRs as an 8 or 9-year-old kid on Airdisaster.com when that was a thing. It was always very interesting to me but never disturbing. I'm pretty far from a morbid person lol, aviation safety is just interesting. No one is making you hear the tapes, but it is nothing worth complaining about in today's world of Netflix murder recreations soothing people to sleep.
 
Roger Roger said:
Again, the transcripts and the reports (both of which I read religiously for interesting/relevant accidents) say all I need to know. I don’t need to hear all the gory details, and I (and practically every one of us on here) don’t have the kind of training to extract more useful information from the audio than what the investigators have already done, in fact we’re more likely to put our own biases and inexperience doing accident analysis on top of it.
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Such being the case, then, you shouldn't listen - a personal and apparently relevant choice.

Others may choose to, for various reasons - whether understood or not personally - and that's fine, too.

My reasons for so doing are just that - my own. I've no interest in trying to convince you to change your mind but, at the same time, I hope you wouldn't try to suggest I should change mine. It's simple enough to ignore the (audio) resources available and to be perplexed by those who want to hear them, judge us as you may.

In general, one needn't have reasons to understand why others choose differently than you; it is enough to know they might and to live with the internal result that people are different.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Ok, but that's you. I can look at the most horrific plane crash photos and not be bothered at all, even though I absolutely hate gore in general. CVR audio doesn't really bother me either for the same reason, though the 9\11 tapes of cellphones and stuff do bother me. All about perspective I guess. In the late 90s I was listening to CVRs as an 8 or 9-year-old kid on Airdisaster.com when that was a thing. It was always very interesting to me but never disturbing. I'm pretty far from a morbid person lol, aviation safety is just interesting. No one is making you hear the tapes, but it is nothing worth complaining about in today's world of Netflix murder recreations soothing people to sleep.
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He's made it very clear that because he doesn't find listening to something appropriate no one should listen to it. I say who cares what he thinks? I doubt anyone cares. Do you guys remember the PMRC?
 
Roger Roger said:
Again, the transcripts and the reports (both of which I read religiously for interesting/relevant accidents) say all I need to know. I don’t need to hear all the gory details, and I (and practically every one of us on here) don’t have the kind of training to extract more useful information from the audio than what the investigators have already done, in fact we’re more likely to put our own biases and inexperience doing accident analysis on top of it.
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Can you imagine a sled CVR though lol?
 
Beep said:
i don’t listen to them either, I suppose if my job description included doing so as part of the investigative team I would, but it doesn’t, so I have no interest in hearing the deaths happen.
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I strive to gather as much info as possible everyday, even if it's unpleasant, regarding what I do for a living. I'd assume a pilot would feel the same way but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Roger Roger said:
I (and practically every one of us on here) don’t have the kind of training to extract more useful information from the audio than what the investigators have already done
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This is definitely an unsupported assertion. I would argue it's an unsupportable one, as well. We all have an entire lifetime of experience of listening to the timbre, accent, rate of speech, etc. etc. of other people's voices and drawing conclusions from them, just like body language.

in fact we’re more likely to put our own biases and inexperience doing accident analysis on top of it.
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Same/Same. As per BobR's post, if you're not in to it or find it macabre or whatever, cool, you do you. But you're making an affirmative case that thinking that one can get more information out of listening to a CVR than out of reading a transcript of same A) Makes one a "rubbernecking weirdo" and B) is not of any educational value for anyone (not just you). What leads you to this conclusion?

Edit: Like Inverted, *listening* to the East Coast Jet flight CVR was VERY different to reading the transcript for me (when I was flying the same airplane in the same sort of operation in the same general area).
 
Boris Badenov said:
This is definitely an unsupported assertion. I would argue it's an unsupportable one, as well. We all have an entire lifetime of experience of listening to the timbre, accent, rate of speech, etc. etc. of other people's voices and drawing conclusions from them, just like body language.
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Yeah, and we’re all great at it which is why you never have threads on here about coworkers who are utterly clueless about how to have a conversation in the cockpit.

You do you, but I don’t understand the kind of personality that feels they need to hear the screams of panic in order to apply the lessons from an accident report to their own flying. Again, maybe I’m the weird one for that.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Edit: Like Inverted, *listening* to the East Coast Jet flight CVR was VERY different to reading the transcript for me (when I was flying the same airplane in the same sort of operation in the same general area).
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For a (hopefully not) former airline type, can you explain what they were trying to do, and what they thought was going to happen? 'Cause from here it looks like they got bored and pressed the "Kill everybody on board" button.

I just want to know what was supposed to happen here. Because from what I just saw and heard, I just can't guess.
 
Roger Roger said:
You do you, but I don’t understand the kind of personality that feels they need to hear the screams of panic in order to apply the lessons from an accident report to their own flying.
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In the case of the East Coast Jets crash, I knew the outcome so I had little interest in hearing anything after their fatal decision to go around.

I did want to know everything, including hearing the CVR, about how they failed to follow the routine lift-dump procedure they executed hundreds of times previously.
 
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knot4u said:
I strive to gather as much info as possible everyday, even if it's unpleasant, regarding what I do for a living. I'd assume a pilot would feel the same way but maybe I'm wrong.
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Being conscientious is a good trait, but wanting to hear the CVR is incredibly unnecessary unless you are part of the designated personnel actively involved in the accident investigation.
The following is a little info from the NTSB regarding CVRs

“ The CVR recordings are treated differently than the other factual information obtained in an accident investigation. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the verbal communications inside the cockpit, Congress has required that the Safety Board not release any part of a CVR audio recording. Because of this sensitivity, a high degree of security is provided for the CVR audio and its transcript. The content and timing of release of the written transcript are strictly regulated: under federal law, transcripts of pertinent portions of cockpit voice recordings are released at a Safety Board public hearing on the accident or, if no hearing is held, when a majority of the factual reports are made public “

I’ll say it again, the information is already there in print, I do not feel the need to hear the people dying to understand the events that led up to that moment so that I can learn from it.
 
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