My first flight as an Air Attack pilot

DE727UPS

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
About 100 acres in the end. Close to Grand Coulee Dam. Two fire bosses and two helos. Lots of right turns makes an old mans neck hurt. Flying a late 60's vintage AC500B Twin Commander. Pretty fun but lots of sitting around as I have flown once in 11 days (not consecutive).



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N1010F Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware

Track N1010F flight from Univ of OK to Durant Rgnl/Eaker Fld
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fholbert said:
Are you alone in the aircraft? Like to see some pic’s If you can.
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The Air Attack observer guy is in the right seat. My sole job is to get him on the fire so he can direct the air assets. He is really the commander of the fire. The incident commander on the ground seems to have equal authority but it seemed like my guy checked in with her and they made a game plan. After that, the Air Attack guy directed all the drops on the fire by the helo's and fire bosses. The Air Attack guy monitors two or three frequencies so it can get busy for him. As I get more experience I should be able to help him with his workload. I didn't take any pics. Next time I'll check that it's okay and try to take some pics.
 
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DE727UPS said:
The Air Attack observer guy is in the right seat. My sole job is to get him on the fire so he can direct the air assets. He is really the commander of the fire. The incident commander on the ground seems to have equal authority but it seemed like my guy checked in with her and they made a game plan. After that, the Air Attack guy directed all the drops on the fire by the helo's and fire bosses. The Air Attack guy monitors two or three frequencies so it can get busy for him. As I get more experience I should be able to help him with his workload. I didn't take any pics. Next time I'll check that it's okay and try to take some pics.
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The ATGS……in the right seat. :)
 
DE727UPS said:
Thanks Mike. Had seen that acronym but never new what it stood for.
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no worries! Has the company read you in on who is who in the Incident Command System, since they have you working in direct support of them?
 
No. We got zero training on anything except flying the plane. I felt it was inadequate but he ATGS's I've talked to feel like we can learn on the fly. The flight I did it was interesting how the ATGS came on scene after a couple helo's were already there and the ground attack was well under way. He discussed objectives and plans with the IC but once the IC's plan and needs were heard, he kind of started running the show while being open to whatever the IC's comments were. He and the IC had good coordination and consideration was given to where the ground assets were. This fire was interesting in that a good half of it was on a rocky hillside and ground wasn't going to have good access so maybe that's why the ATGS was given more leeway. But I sort of got the impression that if it's a big enough fire that Air Attack is called in that he is given a lot of influence on strategy as he can see the big picture.
 
DE727UPS said:
No. We got zero training on anything except flying the plane. I felt it was inadequate but he ATGS's I've talked to feel like we can learn on the fly. The flight I did it was interesting how the ATGS came on scene after a couple helo's were already there and the ground attack was well under way. He discussed objectives and plans with the IC but once the IC's plan and needs were heard, he kind of started running the show while being open to whatever the IC's comments were. He and the IC had good coordination and consideration was given to where the ground assets were. This fire was interesting in that a good half of it was on a rocky hillside and ground wasn't going to have good access so maybe that's why the ATGS was given more leeway. But I sort of got the impression that if it's a big enough fire that Air Attack is called in that he is given a lot of influence on strategy as he can see the big picture.
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It all depends on what the ICs objectives are. The ATGS controls air assets to see to those objectives. The IC is the “PIC of the fire” if you want to think of it that way. The air assets are direct support to the ground assets, assuming they are involved (in certain terrain, they might not be). Strategy and tactics will vary depending on whether the fire is to be extinguished here and now, or managed and gotten some use from.

They really need to give ground school on the ICS, as it’s completely germane to your whole reason for existence of hauling the ATGS around. It would be like me going out in my A-10 back in the day to provide Close Air Support, but having gotten zero training on how the ground forces I’m supporting, do their job and even who they are. I’m quite surprised that training isn’t given, as that seems very lacking to me.
 
///AMG said:
Very cool. Love to see some pics if you get them. As was said, nice choice of retirement gig!
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So you can understand it, Air Attack is merely the E-2 Hawkeye minus the radar dome and with one backender, all it does is orbit. Most Air Attack planes are ancient 90 series King Airs or Aero Commanders. The Leadplane, if there is one assigned, is the FAC. Some air tankers can do initial attack on their own with no leadplane, such as single engine tankers; while others require a leadplane before they can employ, such as VLAT (DC-10/747) or MAFFS (USAF C-130).
 
DE727UPS said:
Never heard of that. It's an Aero Commander Shrike. We have two planes. This one is an AC500B and the one in YKM is an AC500S (N444TS). They have both been modified with 290 hp turbocharged Lycomings.
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Duntless Air I think operates the air bosses out of COE or DEW.
 
MikeD said:
I’m quite surprised that training isn’t given, as that seems very lacking to me.
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It kinda was to me too but I have nothing to compare it to. The USFS has a 7 page document that summarizes there rules and expectations. They do a briefing o that before the carding ride. The carding flight you have to fly safely with a USFS aviation guy on a short observation hop. He has you orbit a point and tries to get you to go below 500 agl. I think he's judging you on your ability to guess agl altitudes without reference to the altimeter. You have to do a 180 degree escape maneuver, which is like a 180 steep turn. The hardest thing is for some reason they want you to be able to program the stupid FM radios they use. They aren't like an aircraft radio I've ever seen and if you mess one thing up you have to start over. And it's hard to hit the right keys in turbulence. I swear it took my 15 minutes and 10 do overs to get the radio programed cause it was so rough. Hope I never have to do that.
 
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