AA W/O’s get massive pay raise

chrisreedrules said:
As for the AA regional pay rates my initial reaction was, “well this is the end”. It isn’t sustainable and I would be more nervous now than ever if my plan was to stay at an AA regional and flow to AA.

The current economy/demand isn’t going to last much longer. People have already eaten through their savings from Covid and are now putting stuff like airline tickets on credit cards. Depending on how bad the coming economic event is will dictate a lot of what happens to AA, and all airlines.
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That would probably scale back and make schedules normal again. Because what is going on now isn’t even sustainable in the future. Take a deep breath man. FFS, some of you guys and your incessant panicking for the next economic depression to hit the industry. Turn off TV. Go outside and take a deep breath.
 
chrisreedrules said:
As for the AA regional pay rates my initial reaction was, “well this is the end”. It isn’t sustainable and I would be more nervous now than ever if my plan was to stay at an AA regional and flow to AA.

The current economy/demand isn’t going to last much longer. People have already eaten through their savings from Covid and are now putting stuff like airline tickets on credit cards. Depending on how bad the coming economic event is will dictate a lot of what happens to AA, and all airlines.
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So here's an airline economics question for the masses....I have been a loyal customer of the widget (being in Minny) but had to bypass them for my next trip that I just bought...

Going to ORF next month for my sons reenlistment. Widget wanted anywhere from $1300 to $2000 with layover choices of atl, dtw, lga, jfk.... Booked on SWA for $450 with stops in BWI. Is there a difference in service between the two...? Sure but not enough to make up for the price difference....Usually they are somewhat close but these fares are in completely different ranges. SWA still living off of their fuel savings....?
 
JEP said:
So here's an airline economics question for the masses....I have been a loyal customer of the widget (being in Minny) but had to bypass them for my next trip that I just bought...

Going to ORF next month for my sons reenlistment. Widget wanted anywhere from $1300 to $2000 with layover choices of atl, dtw, lga, jfk.... Booked on SWA for $450 with stops in BWI. Is there a difference in service between the two...? Sure but not enough to make up for the price difference....Usually they are somewhat close but these fares are in completely different ranges. SWA still living off of their fuel savings....?
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Anecdotal experience.
 
JEP said:
So here's an airline economics question for the masses....I have been a loyal customer of the widget (being in Minny) but had to bypass them for my next trip that I just bought...

Going to ORF next month for my sons reenlistment. Widget wanted anywhere from $1300 to $2000 with layover choices of atl, dtw, lga, jfk.... Booked on SWA for $450 with stops in BWI. Is there a difference in service between the two...? Sure but not enough to make up for the price difference....Usually they are somewhat close but these fares are in completely different ranges. SWA still living off of their fuel savings....?
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I noticed something similar going down to STT recently. AA wanted like $1200 /person round trip. JetBlue was like $550 /person. I don’t get it but I certainly went with JetBlue.
 
tcco94 said:
That would probably scale back and make schedules normal again. Because what is going on now isn’t even sustainable in the future. Take a deep breath man. FFS, some of you guys and your incessant panicking for the next economic depression to hit the industry. Turn off TV. Go outside and take a deep breath.
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Like I said I hope I’m wrong. Things aren’t looking too hot right now though and there are 0 indications that they will get any better in the short term.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I noticed something similar going down to STT recently. AA wanted like $1200 /person round trip. JetBlue was like $550 /person. I don’t get it but I certainly went with JetBlue.
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I wonder if it's deterrent pricing. If they raise the price on a flight that they think they will have to cancel, it's easier to either a) collect the money or b) cancel the flight without inconveniencing a bunch of customers.
 
JEP said:
So here's an airline economics question for the masses....I have been a loyal customer of the widget (being in Minny) but had to bypass them for my next trip that I just bought...

Going to ORF next month for my sons reenlistment. Widget wanted anywhere from $1300 to $2000 with layover choices of atl, dtw, lga, jfk.... Booked on SWA for $450 with stops in BWI. Is there a difference in service between the two...? Sure but not enough to make up for the price difference....Usually they are somewhat close but these fares are in completely different ranges. SWA still living off of their fuel savings....?
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My wife and one of the boys are flying to ORF tomorrow to visit some old navy wife friends of hers. There wasn't a ticket (at least at list price) a month ago from SEA that was less than $1000. Only thing less than that was like a 19 hr overnight trip that was just $800. ORF has also never really been a convenient airport to get to on the cheap, so there is that. When I was active duty and buying short notice tickets (classic never knew if id actually be able to take leave dates until maybe a month out), it still normally cost us $2000 to fly together (sans kids) to the west coast. That doesn't answer your question, other than to say the particular SWA ticket might have been an outlier.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Yes. I’m a new hire at Delta and I 100% anticipate getting furloughed in 2023. But I’m a pessimist if there ever was one. Hopefully I’m wrong.
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Congratulations! It’s really pretty great here. The summer is going poorly, and rotation construction is highly suspect, but I think that and a new contract all shakes out within 6-8 months.

As far as furloughing goes, there will be 1000 below you by Christmas, 230 more retirements this year and over 400 next year. Then over 500 in 2024. We may stagnate, but we’ll be ok. I’m still diversifying income streams, but that’s more of a hedge to risk in general rather than specifically to furlough.

This brings another thing into focus. Our generation is so conditioned to “flash” events that we cannot even fathom the next recession as anything but catastrophic and high velocity. 2001, 2008, 2020…a recession basically MUST happen, but long history shows that it doesn’t need to be so dreadful as these.
 
Flyinthrew said:
Congratulations! It’s really pretty great here. The summer is going poorly, and rotation construction is highly suspect, but I think that and a new contract all shakes out within 6-8 months.

As far as furloughing goes, there will be 1000 below you by Christmas, 230 more retirements this year and over 400 next year. Then over 500 in 2024. We may stagnate, but we’ll be ok. I’m still diversifying income streams, but that’s more of a hedge to risk in general rather than specifically to furlough.

This brings another thing into focus. Our generation is so conditioned to “flash” events that we cannot even fathom the next recession as anything but catastrophic and high velocity. 2001, 2008, 2020…a recession basically MUST happen, but long history shows that it doesn’t need to be so dreadful as these.
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I can’t fault him. You’re carrying the optimist view and justifying it with numbers you hope work out. He’s just being worse-case scenario. Personally, I’d rather plan worse case.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I can’t fault him. You’re carrying the optimist view and justifying it with numbers you hope work out. He’s just being worse-case scenario. Personally, I’d rather plan worse case.
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Planning for worst case is smart, and also a positive action you can take to prepare. What we saw a lot of here in 2020, for example, was just sky-is-falling worst case scenario, aviation will be dead for a decade now, etc etc etc. That isn't productive or helpful, and not only does it perpetuate fear and stress, but it also ended up being (again, in that instance), false for a lot of people....

I'm not saying that is what he (chrisreed) is doing here by any means, but there is a lot of jumping to conclusions in general occurring right now. Bottom line, none of us have any idea what is going to happen. Neither do the people who make all their money by knowing.
 
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We went from too much demand the airlines have to cut flights because they can’t possibly fly to the demand to furloughs. Stop parading around acting like this is normal behavior and everyone else has their head in the sand not prepping for rainy days. This type of behavior only happens on forums and hence why most people in this industry avoid them like the plague. Because we talk about furloughs and the doom of our career almost on a daily basis.
 
Flyinthrew said:
Congratulations! It’s really pretty great here. The summer is going poorly, and rotation construction is highly suspect, but I think that and a new contract all shakes out within 6-8 months.

As far as furloughing goes, there will be 1000 below you by Christmas, 230 more retirements this year and over 400 next year. Then over 500 in 2024. We may stagnate, but we’ll be ok. I’m still diversifying income streams, but that’s more of a hedge to risk in general rather than specifically to furlough.

This brings another thing into focus. Our generation is so conditioned to “flash” events that we cannot even fathom the next recession as anything but catastrophic and high velocity. 2001, 2008, 2020…a recession basically MUST happen, but long history shows that it doesn’t need to be so dreadful as these.
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Do you anticipate the anticipated Delta contract in 6-8 months to also signal a contract for Endeavor? I’m a new hire there :) End of November class date.
 
natid82 said:
Do you anticipate the anticipated Delta contract in 6-8 months to also signal a contract for Endeavor? I’m a new hire there :) End of November class date.
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Congrats. An end of November class date is really far away. I’d say the two negotiations aren’t linked all that much. I don’t know where they are on their contract cycle, but I would bet that something positive happens at EDV sooner rather than later just due to how the wind is blowing in the 50-76 seat world.
 
tcco94 said:
We went from too much demand the airlines have to cut flights because they can’t possibly fly to the demand to furloughs. Stop parading around acting like this is normal behavior and everyone else has their head in the sand not prepping for rainy days. This type of behavior only happens on forums and hence why most people in this industry avoid them like the plague. Because we talk about furloughs and the doom of our career almost on a daily basis.
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At least he’s consistent. He may be the most consistent doomer in the entire aviation industry. I can respect a guy with convictions like that.
 
Flyinthrew said:
Congrats. An end of November class date is really far away. I’d say the two negotiations aren’t linked all that much. I don’t know where they are on their contract cycle, but I would bet that something positive happens at EDV sooner rather than later just due to how the wind is blowing in the 50-76 seat world.
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Thanks! Certainly hope so, super excited to get into it, I wish I could have started before the end of November.
 
MikeD said:
Envoy apparently 300% pay for trips picked up in July?
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What is LCA at Envoy right now, hourly? I heard crazy numbers......300% of that is amazing. Forget asking mainline CA's if they have their apps in.....might as well be asking that of jr finance bros :bounce: (also I love it......about damn time.....my introduction to regional aircrew has impressed me, down to every last one)
 
///AMG said:
What is LCA at Envoy right now, hourly? I heard crazy numbers......300% of that is amazing. Forget asking mainline CA's if they have their apps in.....might as well be asking that of jr finance bros :bounce: (also I love it......about damn time.....my introduction to regional aircrew has impressed me, down to every last one)
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At all three WOs, a maxed out ($213.75) CA with the 100% on top LCA over ride is $427.50/hr. Not sure if the 300% would be on maxed out or on the over ride rate. But at 300%, it's either going to be about $640/hr or $1281/hr for whatever open time they have the schedule room to grab.

Crazy times.
 
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