It's official: flow to UAL

You are, in fact, correct. 500 hours are the mins, and it's an excellent experience. I haven't heard a single negative about Cape Air pilots at my shop, and we've got a bunch of them.

Every 9K pilot I had as an LCA was solid and made my job easy. One of the few places you can go as a low time guy and get some really unique experience.
Yeah, not holding out to find something in my backyard. BF and I already had the chat awhile ago. But its definitely a plus if able. But not holding my breath. I applied to Grand Canyon Scenic in December, never heard back. Life goes on though. :)
I hate to say it, but keep plugging away. I remember 500TT being a very common threshold for low time gigs. Outside of CFI or survey for the eagleview/pictometry Cessna flying or maybe a SE dropzone there weren't a ton of places that took anyone under 500hr. YMMV as I don't quite have my own finger on the pulse but have some mentees going through that same process now.
 
I'll enter with some possibly controversial opinions. @JordanD said in a post recently that when kids come up to him in the airport and ask him how to become a pilot. He has no answer because everything he could give them is outdated info in the current environment. And like Harrison Ford said in The Force Awakens. "It's true. All of it!"

Hourly rates for an older 172, Warrior, or Cherokee here in the valley range anywhere between $120-155 an hour wet. CFI is going to cost about $75 an hr. Multi for a Seneca I or II cost about $325-370 an hr. plus CFI. and you need a minimum of 25 hrs. It's about $220 an hr. for a G-1000 Cessna/Warrior. Much more expensive than when some of you were on the come up years ago. And likely to go up even further with gas prices, related to the Ukraine crisis.

As someone whose currently in the rat race to build hours to get to 1500. It's hard out there right now, it's a knife fight for hours. Unless you got the scratch to pay for them out of pocket. Or have a rich family. Or you're a favored son/daughter and have connections to someone who can get you on with a 91/135 outfit. Let me tell you that yes this current environment is probably the best hiring environment in awhile. But you still need hours to be able to get over the hump, which is the problem. There a crap tonne of low timers out here also looking to find a job and build hours, for very few low time jobs. But I constantly hear pilots at a legacy, ULCC or flying G-something either in real life, or on the nets. Telling me and others like me in the current situation, that us low timers are complainers, making excuses. Or we aren't working hard enough and aren't doing enough or knocking door down enough doors. Are you even flying, bro? Or that we're lazy and need to work harder to get where we want to be. Because when they were in my same spot they did this, or that and got their job. Well that was then, and in some cases what they did back then to get their first break still works in the current market. But not really. Or I hear what essentially sounds the same as regional pilots getting told at career fairs from legacies. The much frustrating and hated, "keep doing what you're doing." But only at the low time level.

A 121 pilot here in PHX, who was at a flight school I was at a few months ago, when I was getting checked out, gave me some sagely advice. He said that the FAA can get you from 0-250 hrs no problem. But they have no organized plan to help get the current and future crop of pilots from a CSEL/CMEL to ATP. He said that its going to be the hardest thing for me to be able to get my first low time job, near impossible. But that once I do. Everything is typically up from there. Typically. I was surprised to hear that from a WN guy, because again. All I typically hear is 121 guys that're out of touch with the current congested and super competitive system to build hours and it gets super frustrating to always have to low time splain'.

I've said this before. I have about 455 tt. w/ a CMEL. I've put in like 50 or more apps to places. Crickets. I continue to put in more all the time. Competitive mins in the current competitive environment is 800-1000 tt. for a friggin' survey job. One place wants 1500 tt. Yes, mins are advertised at 500 tt. but no guarantee that you're going to get it. Well, how do you get to 750-1000 tt. to be competitive, if you can't get a job to build hours? My roommate at pilot house was 18. He's currently flying Lears. Super happy for him, but his family has money, he's from Dallas. His neighbor flies for AA, his son flies for Envoy. The dad knew someone at pipeline company that pre pandemic got him a job to build hours before the music stopped. To be able to get him 1000 tt. to fly a corporate gig. He hasn't struggled to get to 1500. His case of nepotism/networking isn't everyone's. It's been said over and over hiring is all about luck and timing. Honestly from jump trying to get into this career started, I've just had absolutely nothing but bad luck and timing. Out of training I had a survey job. Interviewed, offered job. Then COVID came and May 2020 the offer was withdrawn. Haven't been able to strike it rich again in two years. And definitely not for lack of trying HARD either.

Lastly before @ASpilot2be lectures me again about my 5 paragraph minimum. CFI'ing. So everyone knows that I live in Phoenix the flight school capital of the states. I'm currently studying for my FOI. Two guys I know went to two different flight schools. They were told in a handshake deal by management/school owners that if they did all their instructor ratings at their schools, they were guaranteed to get a CFI job. Both recently got ghosted by management without explanation and found out second hand that someone else in the clique at the school got their promised CFI job. Probably a tale as old as time. So even with a CFI it is not assured you'll have much successes and at least around here lots of the schools locally, maybe for insurance reasons don't seem too keen to hire a new CFI with no dual given. I hear that A LOT. But again... how do you get a lot of dual given, if no one is willing to give you the chance? Lol. Super frustrating. I don't let it get to me. At least I try not to. You just gotta stay positive and keep pushing forward. It's all that you can do, all that YOU can control.

So its not that we low time guys are lazy. Or that we aren't out here trying our hardest/damnest to hustle to get that first time building job. We're all super frustrated and tired of rejection, which is life. Or hearing "keep doing what you're doing." Pay your dues, or any variation. Of etc., etc. etc.

I shall now don my gay apparel of bunker gear/turnout gear and wait for the impending scorch. Lol. :)

That’s a long book. If you put as much effort into making excuses of why you can’t get hired into a low time job you’d have one by now. Do you have constraints keeping you from looking outside PHX area? There are people lapping you right now flying right seat gigs in Cessna 208s. Say what you will about that time it gets people to where they want to go quickly. If you want to build time and get over that hump quick there are oppurtunities out there. If you’re really networking and knocking on every door it shouldn’t be that difficult to find something. You have to go all in.
 
There are still places in the country that one can rent aircraft at a decent rate. This place has a Cessna 152 for $75 an hour wet. The website says $65, but I contacted them last summer when I was looking to finish out my hours to ATP.

goddamit. And here I was paying $175/hr wet for a steam 172.
 
That’s a long book. If you put as much effort into making excuses of why you can’t get hired into a low time job you’d have one by now. Do you have constraints keeping you from looking outside PHX area? There are people lapping you right now flying right seat gigs in Cessna 208s. Say what you will about that time it gets people to where they want to go quickly. If you want to build time and get over that hump quick there are oppurtunities out there. If you’re really networking and knocking on every door it shouldn’t be that difficult to find something. You have to go all in.
guy that doesn't actually read thread but feels the need to comment

and yeah right seat time in a SE turboprop is dumb don't @ me because I've also had those guys and they were the opposite of 9K pilots
 
No offense to anyone here. I love Delta, always have. But in talking to UA pilots, I just think that UA is a better fit for my personality, so its my #1. If I applied and Delta called, yeah I'd go in a hot minute. Realistically though at my rather advanced age. Even UA might be a pipe dream. LCC/ULCC's respective to my age probably offer greater, read faster career advancement than a legacy. So I'm definitely interested in what happens with the Frontier/Spirit merger. I'm not counting anything out. I guess that we'll see what we can see. It's super, super early at this juncture in my future career to be speculating. I'm not wishing on a prayer, or putting all my eggs in one basket. Right now the goal is to either finish my instructor ratings, or to find a low-time building job and go from there. But if someone's asking those two options mentioned are probably the direction I'm heading. But we'll see what we see. When we see it.

My how times change. I remember when (2014) I felt like I won the lottery when Frontier called me for an interview, ha ha.
 
That’s a long book. If you put as much effort into making excuses of why you can’t get hired into a low time job you’d have one by now. Do you have constraints keeping you from looking outside PHX area? There are people lapping you right now flying right seat gigs in Cessna 208s. Say what you will about that time it gets people to where they want to go quickly. If you want to build time and get over that hump quick there are opportunities out there. If you’re really networking and knocking on every door it shouldn’t be that difficult to find something. You have to go all in.

.
 
Last edited:
shrug off the haters my dude, not many people in the pilot population have been in your shoes changing careers. They're just simply not gonna understand your perspective, and most won't be willing to actually utilize a few brainwaves to realize that it's not a straight line from A to B.
You'll get there. Just stay focused.

Thanks... Justin isn't a bad guy, he messaged me offline and apologized. But yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about honestly in my previous post. People assume that you're sitting around not advancing. I got my multi last year. That's something. That's advancing. But its still gets minimized. I'm getting my high performance endorsement next week for a steal. That's a resume padder, especially for low time guys seeking work. And I'm getting it almost for free. Also I have enough cash stowed for building 25 hrs. of multi time. But people still ask me all the time. Why aren't you advancing? Why don't you have a flying job? Are you even flying, bro? Stop making excuses. Etc. Etc.

Ugh... it's super, super exhausting, infuriating and frustrating. I give up really.
 
Last edited:
Thanks... Justin isn't a bad guy, he messaged me offline and apologized. But yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about honestly in my previous post. People assume that you're sitting around not advancing. I got my multi last year. That's something. That's advancing. But its still gets minimized. I'm getting my high performance endorsement next week for a steal. That's a resume padder, especially for low time guys seeking work. And I'm getting it almost for free. Also I have enough cash stowed for building 25 hrs. of multi time. But people still ask me all the time. Why aren't you advancing? Why don't you have a flying job? Are you even flying, bro? Stop making excuses. Etc. Etc.

Ugh... it's super, super exhausting, infuriating and frustrating. I give up really.
Hey bro, quit posting on JC and get cracking on that CFI!

forgive me. I had too. It was too easy! LOL!
 
Thanks... Justin isn't a bad guy, he messaged me offline and apologized. But yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about honestly in my previous post. People assume that you're sitting around not advancing. I got my multi last year. That's something. That's advancing. But its still gets minimized. I'm getting my high performance endorsement next week for a steal. That's a resume padder, especially for low time guys seeking work. And I'm getting it almost for free. Also I have enough cash stowed for building 25 hrs. of multi time. But people still ask me all the time. Why aren't you advancing? Why don't you have a flying job? Are you even flying, bro? Stop making excuses. Etc. Etc.

Ugh... it's super, super exhausting, infuriating and frustrating. I give up really.
Try to rent a piper Aztec if you want to get into flying survey for one of the eagleview vendors. They only fly 172s and Aztecs.
 
I know you’ll get it done, just head down focused. A CFI candidate shouldn’t even be comparing legacy jobs. One step at a time, don’t overwhelm yourself. Of course have some urgency I’d say, head down hard work and no days off will get you there. I know you’re big around here Matt so it’s easy to get into the airline talk and such, which then sparks people to jump on you so to speak.

but I think I can speak for most of the community here that we want to see you thrive and succeed.
@Maximilian_Jenius
 
Thanks... Justin isn't a bad guy, he messaged me offline and apologized. But yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about honestly in my previous post. People assume that you're sitting around not advancing. I got my multi last year. That's something. That's advancing. But its still gets minimized. I'm getting my high performance endorsement next week for a steal. That's a resume padder, especially for low time guys seeking work. And I'm getting it almost for free. Also I have enough cash stowed for building 25 hrs. of multi time. But people still ask me all the time. Why aren't you advancing? Why don't you have a flying job? Are you even flying, bro? Stop making excuses. Etc. Etc.

Ugh... it's super, super exhausting, infuriating and frustrating. I give up really.
Man you already know my story so I won’t bore you with it, just wanted to say keep it up. I was recruiting yesterday and every young college freshman that came up to me asked the same question, “how do we get from 300 hrs to where you are?” You’re not alone my guy, and you have a huge network of people standing behind ya rooting for you. You got this.
 
Back
Top