A simple request

We need to bring back ATC jumpseating. As far as I’m concerned, you guys should be allowed to jumpseat whenever you want, without hassle.

And pilots should be encouraged to visit ATC facilities to quietly sit a shift and watch.

We both really need to better understand the other half. I hear pilots complain all the time about ATC, because they don’t understand what you guys deal with … and the converse is also true. I had socal keep us very high, then give us a slam dunk at 250kts assigned. Then he gave us a >90 degree turn to intercept the ONT loc half a mile from the centerline along with a speed reduction to 210… while we were still above glidepath and 250kts. Afterwards he said “well, looks like you missed the localizer, fly heading XXX to rejoin,” as if he had absolutely no idea how badly he’d balled us up.

Likewise, I had a controller chide me for missing an altitude restriction after getting an RA for directly conflicting traffic (read: legit noise abatement) while on the previous frequency. When I explained to her that we were checking on immediately after descending to comply with RA, she said “well, if you’re going to miss a restriction, you need to let us know.”

But I love my ATC sisters and brothers. You guys do such an amazing job… sometimes I think we just need to reinforce that we’re on the same team.
 
Acrofox said:
We need to bring back ATC jumpseating. As far as I’m concerned, you guys should be allowed to jumpseat whenever you want, without hassle.

And pilots should be encouraged to visit ATC facilities to quietly sit a shift and watch.

We both really need to better understand the other half. I hear pilots complain all the time about ATC, because they don’t understand what you guys deal with … and the converse is also true. I had socal keep us very high, then give us a slam dunk at 250kts assigned. Then he gave us a >90 degree turn to intercept the ONT loc half a mile from the centerline along with a speed reduction to 210… while we were still above glidepath and 250kts. Afterwards he said “well, looks like you missed the localizer, fly heading XXX to rejoin,” as if he had absolutely no idea how badly he’d balled us up.

Likewise, I had a controller chide me for missing an altitude restriction after getting an RA for directly conflicting traffic (read: legit noise abatement) while on the previous frequency. When I explained to her that we were checking on immediately after descending to comply with RA, she said “well, if you’re going to miss a restriction, you need to let us know.”

But I love my ATC sisters and brothers. You guys do such an amazing job… sometimes I think we just need to reinforce that we’re on the same team.
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Don’t worry, there’s def some controllers where we all wonder how they’re certified. And I wholeheartedly agree about the jump seating and facility visits. They should be mandatory parts of training.
 
NovemberEcho said:
If ATC tells you for example “fly heading xxx when able direct abc”, don’t keep flying your present heading until you program direct into the box. Please turn first. I issued the turn for a reason.
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Remember, there’s a whole contingent of pilots out there that get the hives when they’re given vectors or see an HSI in some old stock footage.

DPApilot said:
Wash Center comes to mind. That or Indy Approach…
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Indy center and Indy approach are both staffed with some sort of weird AI program written by the folks that grew up watching “A Clockwork Orange”. Man, I should have sought out the tapes when I was doing a captain IOE and they kept trying to run us into a massive line of weather because “tHe LaSt GuY sAiD iT wAs Ok”. Hello, Delta 191 ring a bell?
 
NovemberEcho said:
Don’t worry, there’s def some controllers where we all wonder how they’re certified. And I wholeheartedly agree about the jump seating and facility visits. They should be mandatory parts of training.
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To your original point though, no pilot should require a facility visit to understand that they should turn to an assigned heading when it’s issued, then screw with their automation for the next fix. The heading was a right-now, the fix was a when-able. It’s not rocket science.
 
Derg said:
Remember, there’s a whole contingent of pilots out there that get the hives when they’re given vectors or see an HSI in some old stock footage.



Indy center and Indy approach are both staffed with some sort of weird AI program written by the folks that grew up watching “A Clockwork Orange”. Man, I should have sought out the tapes when I was doing a captain IOE and they kept trying to run us into a massive line of weather because “tHe LaSt GuY sAiD iT wAs Ok”. Hello, Delta 191 ring a bell?
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You know my vitriol in the group message with Chris.
 
I just wish NY approach controller knew that the Bus already computes descents at half speed brakes. Last minute descents require kicking off the autopilot and that’s less than fun at 12k.
 
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