Cathay working on single pilot long haul

Denial is the refuge of those incapable of thinking beyond the moment. It is not the hallmark of dreamers. It's beyond me how anyone can look at recent history and think "... will never happen."

I think it’s because they don’t want it to happen, therefor it never will happen. Ever.

500 years from now we still won’t have pilotless pax operations. 1000 years from, still a big nope. Never.

10,000 years from now the public will still refuse to fly on a pilotless intergalactic spaceship. Nope. Never gonna happen ever.

Nevermind the fact that every company any human has ever worked for is consistently dispensing MASSIVE resources figuring out how to get rid of them. Nevermind that we went from zero aircraft to the moon in less than a century.

Pilotless pax operations is the ceiling of human innovation that will never be reached lol
 
Why we worrying about AI and pilotless airplanes when we haven't even mastered this yet?

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I mean we arre still dreamin about "Urban Mobility Vehicles!!
 
I think it’s because they don’t want it to happen, therefor it never will happen. Ever.

500 years from now we still won’t have pilotless pax operations. 1000 years from, still a big nope. Never.

10,000 years from now the public will still refuse to fly on a pilotless intergalactic spaceship. Nope. Never gonna happen ever.

Nevermind the fact that every company any human has ever worked for is consistently dispensing MASSIVE resources figuring out how to get rid of them. Nevermind that we went from zero aircraft to the moon in less than a century.

Pilotless pax operations is the ceiling of human innovation that will never be reached lol
Who the hell cares about 500, 1000 years from now, why don’t we worry about fixing the multitudes of problems we have now first.

I said in my original post that it COULD be done. Heck, it could be done NOW. Look at what the military has done with UAV’s. There’s is NO question it CAN be done. But that’s the military, totally different arena, whole different set of rules, completely different animal.

We’re talking moving up to 2.5 million people a day, in very busy airspace, with constantly changing wx, moving at speeds ranging from 120 knots to 400 knots, on a machine that is pretty complex. And that’s just the estimated number of passengers in U.S. airports alone. That public perception thing is largely underestimated. That will be a major hurdle to overcome. I’d like to know how we’re going to go about addressing that. I think a lot of the people talking about this becoming a reality have the mentality that pilotless airplanes will never crash, or that there would be fewer crashes than current manned aircraft. I’m talking specifically part 121 here. I think that’s being overly optimistic without addressing current problems with computer software. Even the best software has ‘bugs.’ That cannot be allowed to happen to a fully automated, pilotless airplane. It’s a huge roadblock. How do we get around that? That’s what we need to solve first before we continue. The flight testing of these aircraft will be extensive, as well as expensive. The testing would need to cover a nearly infinite amount of possible emergencies/abnormalities that could happen to the aircraft or the software. Can it handle everything thrown at it? Can it respond better than a human pilot could? Will the backup systems respond appropriately at the right times? It would have to, otherwise it won’t happen until it does. How would it handle a fan blade separation and subsequent loss of cabin pressure, maybe loss of multiple other systems? Birdstrikes? Dual engine failure? Loss of the glide slope on short final when the wx is down to minimums? Will it automatically execute a missed, or will it screw up and continue in a descent and hit the runway? Wx radar malfunctions while flying around severe thunderstorms? Will it respond to a wind shear alert and do wind shear escape like it should? I’m just scratching the surface here. A better way to evaluate the software is give it the exact same type of emergency scenarios that real manned airplanes have been involved in. If it can’t handle it at least equal to or better than what the human pilots could, it’s time to go back to the drawing board again and get the coffee running. People keep talking like it’s inevitable, without addressing these underlying concerns first. It will be awhile dude lol. That’s why I’m not bothered by it. It won’t happen in the next 40-50 years. Could it happen someday, yes. At that point I will come back and eat my words on these posts lol.

If it were easy to do, airlines would have been talking about going this route years ago, and we’d already be seeing aircraft deliveries from Boeing and Airbus. Pilots would have been on the chopping block at least 10 years ago. But it hasn’t moved in that direction, and it won’t anytime soon. I laugh when I hear some people say “it will happen in my lifetime,” or “it will be here in 30 years.” Yea, because a driverless car or a train has the same level of complexity as a Boeing or airbus jet. A driverless car definitely moves at 300 mph to get the passengers there. It also has as many complex systems as a triple 7 does.
 
Keep in mind, in the 70s a company decided they'd mx repo a DC something (i wanna say a dc 10) from seattle to a mx base and the company thought-since there were no passengers and it was late- just stick a few mx guys in there, light the fires andlet the autoland take it. The mx guys were taxi qualified, the autopilot and autothrottles do the flying part. Its all fine.

It worked. The FAA lost their collective minds, but it worked. Also i believe this was the autoflare, not the true autoland so if thered been a xwind things could have got worse. I was told this story 20 years ago in class and then probably again 15 years ago by a fed while certifying a HUD, i dont remember everything (or possibly even everything correctly) but we probably arent going to be where we need to be for zero pilots in the cockpit for a while. its probably important to note that if a safety pilot on the ground for single pilot ops becomes a biddable position I'll bid it. So i hope this comes around in 20-30 years but I'm not optimistic. Pilots are cheap and safe and they don't weigh much.
 
Keep in mind, in the 70s a company decided they'd mx repo a DC something (i wanna say a dc 10) from seattle to a mx base and the company thought-since there were no passengers and it was late- just stick a few mx guys in there, light the fires andlet the autoland take it. The mx guys were taxi qualified, the autopilot and autothrottles do the flying part. Its all fine.

It worked. The FAA lost their collective minds, but it worked. Also i believe this was the autoflare, not the true autoland so if thered been a xwind things could have got worse. I was told this story 20 years ago in class and then probably again 15 years ago by a fed while certifying a HUD, i dont remember everything (or possibly even everything correctly) but we probably arent going to be where we need to be for zero pilots in the cockpit for a while. its probably important to note that if a safety pilot on the ground for single pilot ops becomes a biddable position I'll bid it. So i hope this comes around in 20-30 years but I'm not optimistic. Pilots are cheap and safe and they don't weigh much.

I mean. A Horizon ramper with nothing more than Microsoft flight sim experience took off in arguably the hardest-to-fly regional airliner. Did a full loop maneuver bottoming just feet from water. I also have no doubt that if wanted to land, he could have.
 
Would a piece of software have had as good of an outcome as not only one, but three experienced pilots on the flight deck of UA 232? I doubt it.
 
Probably not, but the argument is that for every one of those, there are four Colgan/Atlas/UPS/Comair accidents.
Than it's a management/accounting problem. Airplanes are expensive. Training quality pilots is expensive. Good MX is expensive. Automation can't solve any of those issues if management actually has a safety first attitude.
 
Than it's a management/accounting problem. Airplanes are expensive. Training quality pilots is expensive. Good MX is expensive. Automation can't solve any of those issues if management actually has a safety first attitude.

We'll there's where your confusion is coming from!

(I know you know this.)
 
Probably not, but the argument is that for every one of those, there are four Colgan/Atlas/UPS/Comair accidents.

Also technology gets better over time.

One day the software will be so dang good AND affordable that humans won’t be able to compete. It’ll be safer, more reliable, and cheaper.

There will be a day when more pilots randomly shutdown via coronary events, than computers randomly crashing.

I don’t know why half this threads deniers are arguing as if stuff won’t improve.....
 
Who the hell cares about 500, 1000 years from now, why don’t we worry about fixing the multitudes of problems we have now first.

I said in my original post that it COULD be done. Heck, it could be done NOW. Look at what the military has done with UAV’s. There’s is NO question it CAN be done. But that’s the military, totally different arena, whole different set of rules, completely different animal.

We’re talking moving up to 2.5 million people a day, in very busy airspace, with constantly changing wx, moving at speeds ranging from 120 knots to 400 knots, on a machine that is pretty complex. And that’s just the estimated number of passengers in U.S. airports alone. That public perception thing is largely underestimated. That will be a major hurdle to overcome. I’d like to know how we’re going to go about addressing that. I think a lot of the people talking about this becoming a reality have the mentality that pilotless airplanes will never crash, or that there would be fewer crashes than current manned aircraft. I’m talking specifically part 121 here. I think that’s being overly optimistic without addressing current problems with computer software. Even the best software has ‘bugs.’ That cannot be allowed to happen to a fully automated, pilotless airplane. It’s a huge roadblock. How do we get around that? That’s what we need to solve first before we continue. The flight testing of these aircraft will be extensive, as well as expensive. The testing would need to cover a nearly infinite amount of possible emergencies/abnormalities that could happen to the aircraft or the software. Can it handle everything thrown at it? Can it respond better than a human pilot could? Will the backup systems respond appropriately at the right times? It would have to, otherwise it won’t happen until it does. How would it handle a fan blade separation and subsequent loss of cabin pressure, maybe loss of multiple other systems? Birdstrikes? Dual engine failure? Loss of the glide slope on short final when the wx is down to minimums? Will it automatically execute a missed, or will it screw up and continue in a descent and hit the runway? Wx radar malfunctions while flying around severe thunderstorms? Will it respond to a wind shear alert and do wind shear escape like it should? I’m just scratching the surface here. A better way to evaluate the software is give it the exact same type of emergency scenarios that real manned airplanes have been involved in. If it can’t handle it at least equal to or better than what the human pilots could, it’s time to go back to the drawing board again and get the coffee running. People keep talking like it’s inevitable, without addressing these underlying concerns first. It will be awhile dude lol. That’s why I’m not bothered by it. It won’t happen in the next 40-50 years. Could it happen someday, yes. At that point I will come back and eat my words on these posts lol.

If it were easy to do, airlines would have been talking about going this route years ago, and we’d already be seeing aircraft deliveries from Boeing and Airbus. Pilots would have been on the chopping block at least 10 years ago. But it hasn’t moved in that direction, and it won’t anytime soon. I laugh when I hear some people say “it will happen in my lifetime,” or “it will be here in 30 years.” Yea, because a driverless car or a train has the same level of complexity as a Boeing or airbus jet. A driverless car definitely moves at 300 mph to get the passengers there. It also has as many complex systems as a triple 7 does.

So you keep arguing things I never said. This is mostly a list of things I never said. Never said it was easy. Never said the current software doesn’t have problems to overcome. Never said there won’t be accidents that cause setbacks. Never said it won’t take consistent performance over a long time to win over the public. Never said it won’t be awhile before it happens.

I said, one day it will happen. It’ll be so safe that people will not want human pilots. That’s it.
Pilots would have been on the chopping block at least 10 years ago. But it hasn’t moved in that direction, and it won’t anytime soon.
What? This thread started with a post about companies working on single pilot ops. They’ve been steadily moving this direction for decades.
 
I love the internet.

Hours of endless entertainment when one should be working.... Sshhhh.

Photo question. Going to see the Blue Angels this week at KDLH. Is there a good/bad practice as for settings when shooting them ? I have some good luck once in a while but trying to improve that.
 
isnt it amazing the length companies will go to avoid having another pilot, but there is no talk or rumor about doing with a with the current required number of Flight Attendant(s)?
 
isnt it amazing the length companies will go to avoid having another pilot, but there is no talk or rumor about doing with a with the current required number of Flight Attendant(s)?

Flight attendants (and more importantly the cost related to training them) are cheap. And also, you just happen to work for an airline that is already down to FAA min staffing for their FAs. Other places have been chipping away at the "extra" FAs for a while now.
 
Photo question. Going to see the Blue Angels this week at KDLH. Is there a good/bad practice as for settings when shooting them ? I have some good luck once in a while but trying to improve that.

Depends a bit on what type of camera you are going to be shooting with but in general...

-A faster shutter speed will be your friend to eliminate blurring. A caveat to this is if you want to try a pan (blurred background with sharp jet in the middle) you'll need to shoot at about 1/125 or 1/100.

-Depending on the sunlight at the time, you'll probably need to crank the Fstop down and shoot wide open in order to get enough light when you are using a faster shutter speed. The downside of this however, is that your depth of field gets very narrow, which can make focusing much more difficult. If it is sunny, you can leave the aperture up higher and put the sun behind you (as much as you can) and use that for illumination, getting a good depth of field and a faster shutter speed at the same time. You can also crank the ISO up a bit, although you'll have to experiment a bit and see where things start getting noisy in the image.

-Focusing depends a lot on the camera you are using and how good its autofocus system is. If you don't already, look into to back button focus set ups, which delink the AFS from the shutter button. This takes a little getting used to, but it allows you to set up the focus and then leave it and recompose as needed and then start shooting without the camera refocusing every time you press the shutter release. In the Sony world (Cannon and Nikon have similar... I'm just not familiar with the names), I would set up in Autofocus-Continuous (AFC) and Tracking Expanded Flexible Spot. This would allow me to capture the focus on the jet I want, before I get it in the composition I want (say with another airplane passing behind it) and then then as long as I keep the jet somewhat centered in the frame and the autofocus engaged, the camera will continuously adjust focus as needed. The Tracking portion of the autofocus setting will move the focus point around as needed if the jet slips from the center of the frame, and the Expanded portion of the flexible spot will use AF points just outside the actual focus point as needed to keep things sharp. When it works, it is pretty impressive.

-Composition is probably more important than anything else. A super crisp shot of a jet against a blue background is fine, but having other things in the frame (like a crossing jet out of focus behind it, or buildings or clouds) can make a shot that much better.
 
Depends a bit on what type of camera you are going to be shooting with but in general...

-A faster shutter speed will be your friend to eliminate blurring. A caveat to this is if you want to try a pan (blurred background with sharp jet in the middle) you'll need to shoot at about 1/125 or 1/100.

-Depending on the sunlight at the time, you'll probably need to crank the Fstop down and shoot wide open in order to get enough light when you are using a faster shutter speed. The downside of this however, is that your depth of field gets very narrow, which can make focusing much more difficult. If it is sunny, you can leave the aperture up higher and put the sun behind you (as much as you can) and use that for illumination, getting a good depth of field and a faster shutter speed at the same time. You can also crank the ISO up a bit, although you'll have to experiment a bit and see where things start getting noisy in the image.

-Focusing depends a lot on the camera you are using and how good its autofocus system is. If you don't already, look into to back button focus set ups, which delink the AFS from the shutter button. This takes a little getting used to, but it allows you to set up the focus and then leave it and recompose as needed and then start shooting without the camera refocusing every time you press the shutter release. In the Sony world (Cannon and Nikon have similar... I'm just not familiar with the names), I would set up in Autofocus-Continuous (AFC) and Tracking Expanded Flexible Spot. This would allow me to capture the focus on the jet I want, before I get it in the composition I want (say with another airplane passing behind it) and then then as long as I keep the jet somewhat centered in the frame and the autofocus engaged, the camera will continuously adjust focus as needed. The Tracking portion of the autofocus setting will move the focus point around as needed if the jet slips from the center of the frame, and the Expanded portion of the flexible spot will use AF points just outside the actual focus point as needed to keep things sharp. When it works, it is pretty impressive.

-Composition is probably more important than anything else. A super crisp shot of a jet against a blue background is fine, but having other things in the frame (like a crossing jet out of focus behind it, or buildings or clouds) can make a shot that much better.

Thanks.....As of now Im hoping they still fly. 60% chance rain and thunder.....When we saw them two years ago its low clouds and we didnt get the high show. Hoping it clears up and stays low 70s and that would be perfect....As for the camera its a Nikon 3200 with 50mm zoon and 200 mm zoom
 
isnt it amazing the length companies will go to avoid having another pilot, but there is no talk or rumor about doing with a with the current required number of Flight Attendant(s)?
You can't automate the duties of a flight attendant.
 
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