Two Dead in Bonanza Crash in South Florida [Video]

[knot4u]

Safety requirements for vehicles is nothing new. No one is proposing outlawing cars. I'm only proposing regulations that would require automakers to include autopilots in their cars, no differently than we require seat belts to be installed now. That's not a question of personal freedom. It's a question of regulating manufacture, which the constitution clearly allows under the Commerce Clause.

Simple question, my gardener will show up this afternoon in a mid 2000s F-150 Crew Cab, 6 people will pile out and unload the equipment from the the bed of the truck and do their weekly job on not only my property but three of my neighbors as well. The F-150 was a big step up from the mid '90s extra cab Toyota they used to show up in. How would you propose these folks get on board with a self driving truck? What you're suggesting is dumb, just because you can afford it doesn't mean the other 98% of people can. What happened to personal responsibility and self reliance? My gardeners seem to have a sense of both, and they show up every week unscathed unless it's raining (no point in doing yard work in the rain).

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Simple question, my gardener will show up this afternoon in a mid 2000s F-150 Crew Cab, 6 people will pile out and unload the equipment from the the bed of the truck and do their weekly job on not only my property but three of my neighbors as well. The F-150 was a big step up from the mid '90s extra cab Toyota they used to show up in. How would you propose these folks get on board with a self driving truck? What you're suggesting is dumb, just because you can afford it doesn't mean the other 98% of people can. What happened to personal responsibility and self reliance? My gardeners seem to have a sense of both, and they show up every week unscathed unless it's raining (no point in doing yard work in the rain).

The fact that your gardener hasn't died yet doesn't change the statistical reality. Driving in a car is exceptionally dangerous.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I know you’re not one for citing sources, but: source?

I'm always happy to cite sources, so long as the person requesting it isn't being disingenuous or argumentative just for sport.

The literature on this is voluminous. Here's just one example: The Impact of Age on Cognition

 

[knot4u]

The fact that your gardener hasn't died yet doesn't change the statistical reality. Driving in a car is exceptionally dangerous.

Okay, how are we going to keep people of lesser means mobile if we effectively outlaw any means of transport they can afford?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Okay, how are we going to keep people of lesser means mobile if we effectively outlaw any means of transport they can afford?

These same questions have been asked about every safety innovation ever proposed to be made mandatory in both cars and aircraft. If you go back to the 90s, you can find Rush Limbaugh ranting and raving about how mandatory airbags are going to add thousands to the cost of every car, and people won't be able to afford to them. But lo and behold, once it was made mandatory in 1998, the economies of scale and necessity made it work out just fine, and everyone was able to go on buying cars just like they always had.

 

[Roger Roger]

Okay, how are we going to keep people of lesser means mobile if we effectively outlaw any means of transport they can afford?

How do people who don’t own cars get around now?

 

[mightynimbus]

Safety requirements for vehicles is nothing new. No one is proposing outlawing cars. I'm only proposing regulations that would require automakers to include autopilots in their cars, no differently than we require seat belts to be installed now. That's not a question of personal freedom. It's a question of regulating manufacture, which the constitution clearly allows under the Commerce Clause.

Funny how fogged over and crazed headlights never became a concern for the NTHSA and DOT.
3 year old Ford Focus had headlights producing 10% of design light

No one cares

 

[fholbert]

These same questions have been asked about every safety innovation ever proposed to be made mandatory in both cars and aircraft. If you go back to the 90s, you can find Rush Limbaugh ranting and raving about how mandatory airbags are going to add thousands to the cost of every car, and people won't be able to afford to them. But lo and behold, once it was made mandatory in 1998, the economies of scale and necessity made it work out just fine, and everyone was able to go on buying cars just like they always had.

Padded dash, seatbelts, shoulder belts, ...

 

[ahw01]

Let's have a relevant conversation. Would the driverless car have avoided the aircraft in question?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Let's have a relevant conversation. Would the driverless car have avoided the aircraft in question?

A pilotless plane may avoided the crash.

Primates are bad at most things.

 

[deadstick]

A pilotless plane may avoided the crash.

They can crash all on their own, too, and they can cause all sorts of unique problems.

Gravity always wins.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

They can crash all on their own, too, and they can cause all sorts of unique problems.

Gravity always wins.

In the end, I strongly suspect that pilotless aircraft end up crashing even less than ape-piloted ones.

 

[deadstick]

In the end, I strongly suspect that pilotless aircraft end up crashing even less than ape-piloted ones.

Have you watched Project X?

EDIT: that was a chimp though.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Have you watched Project X?

EDIT: that was a chimp though.

I have not.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

It won’t affect/impact me much at this stage in life; still, I’m not a fan of increasing automation (old guy bias, no doubt).

Apart from reading accident reports, my experience with aviation is nil. I do note that some commentators (many?) note the “over saturation” of information and difficulty in diagnosing issues and responding in a timely way with the increasing use of same.

My only experience in the 911 Center underscores the problem with an over-reliance on automation. It’s just flat-out wrong sometimes and the time needed to track down the ”right” answer is problematic. Maybe it’s only as good as the programming, but the system in this particular world is neither fail-safe nor timely.

There will come a time when I no longer drive; still, at this point, I prefer a person I trust behind the wheel to ”automation.”

I’m the old guard, so to speak, and not the wave of the future, for sure. Mock me, if you will, but I wouldn’t get on an airplane without a pilot, nor into a car without a competent driver. I want to ride with someone who desires to go home in the same way that I do.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I suspect your position will change when you see the evidence of rapidly advancing AI is making the automation that you're used to look like a slide rule.

 

[derg]

These same questions have been asked about every safety innovation ever proposed to be made mandatory in both cars and aircraft. If you go back to the 90s, you can find Rush Limbaugh ranting and raving about how mandatory airbags are going to add thousands to the cost of every car, and people won't be able to afford to them. But lo and behold, once it was made mandatory in 1998, the economies of scale and necessity made it work out just fine, and everyone was able to go on buying cars just like they always had.

Shoulder straps, anti-lock braking and that back windshield secondary brake light that ultra-liberal Ralph Nader was pushing for that was going to bankrupt the auto companies and cause the cost of cars to skyrocket.

 

[MikeD]

I just want to ride in a Johnny Cab.

 

[Nark]

In the end, I strongly suspect that pilotless aircraft end up crashing even less than ape-piloted ones.

I usually am very adversarial towards you, but in this specific incident, it is not my intent.

UAS crash... a lot. I’m not sure I can cite an unclassified source, so you’ll have to trust me.
Further: I did an autoland for MX the other day, it was horrible: the nose slammed down and wondered down the centerline. It’s not the first time I’ve had a “successful but crappy” autoland.
We are nowhere close to fully automated anything.

 

[scooter2525]

Shoulder straps, anti-lock braking and that back windshield secondary brake light that ultra-liberal Ralph Nader was pushing for that was going to bankrupt the auto companies and cause the cost of cars to skyrocket.

The flashing ones? Distraction