The Great Jumpseat War of 2019

[jynxyjoe]

This is just bizarre. Skywest folks on here, convinced and self assured of their leverage, playing the tough guy/gal, and won't let facts change their minds. Then wrong, everyone sees they're wrong, and they pretend they're declaring victory, and I'm sitting here saying the Skywest gang has no clothes (Trumpian).

Then complete detachment from reality of events, never admitting fault and jumping through giant stupid hoops to pretend like there's some sort of deeper picture we're all too dull to see, and if I haven't said it already-and I have- not admitting fault for anything and pretending they were always right and the victim (Clintonian).

Am I the only one seeing this? Yes we're all humans and a little goofy but, there's something more goofy going on here.

 

[GypsyPilot]

This is just bizarre. Skywest folks on here, convinced and self assured of their leverage, playing the tough guy/gal, and won't let facts change their minds. Then wrong, everyone sees they're wrong, and they pretend they're declaring victory, and I'm sitting here saying the Skywest gang has no clothes (Trumpian).

Then complete detachment from reality of events, never admitting fault and jumping through giant stupid hoops to pretend like there's some sort of deeper picture we're all too dull to see, and if I haven't said it already-and I have- not admitting fault for anything and pretending they were always right and the victim (Clintonian).

Am I the only one seeing this? Yes we're all humans and a little goofy but, there's something more goofy going on here.

You’re the only one implying all SkyWest pilots have that attitude. I’ve seen several on here that are shocked, pissed, and embarrassed by the actions of SAPA and a (small) handful of line pilots. As usual, the aviation forums are quick to naively lump all 4,000+ SkyWest pilots into one homogenous group.

 

[Karnage]

You’re the only one implying all SkyWest pilots have that attitude. I’ve seen several on here that are shocked, pissed, and embarrassed by the actions of SAPA and a (small) handful of line pilots. As usual, the aviation forums are quick to naively lump all 4,000+ SkyWest pilots into one homogenous group.

The monkey's got a point though. There are far too many pilots who, prior to this whole deal, wouldn't have trusted SAPA if they said that water is wet that simply fell in line and joined the mob in supporting this idiotic jumpseat war. The more I talk to my fellow pilots, the more I realize that those of us who thought this was a bad idea are a definite minority. While there has been some skepticism creeping back in wondering just exactly what was gained by starting a jumpseat war then later agreeing to what is essentially the original "unacceptable" proposal, the newly enlarged SAPA Faithful continue to believe their actions were righteous, and it's not just a small handful of pilots that seem to have been converted.

 

[tcco94]

The monkey's got a point though. There are far too many pilots who, prior to this whole deal, wouldn't have trusted SAPA if they said that water is wet that simply fell in line and joined the mob in supporting this idiotic jumpseat war. The more I talk to my fellow pilots, the more I realize that those of us who thought this was a bad idea are a definite minority. While there has been some skepticism creeping back in wondering just exactly what was gained by starting a jumpseat war then later agreeing to what is essentially the original "unacceptable" proposal, the newly enlarged SAPA Faithful continue to believe their actions were righteous, and it's not just a small handful of pilots that seem to have been converted.

That's because probably half of those pilots don't even know the story and don't care to learn. Every FO I've flown with so far thought the war begun because UAL put us in the OAL category and also thought UAL couldn't afford a jumpseat war because we are "so successful at providing them money".

 

[jynxyjoe]

You’re the only one implying all SkyWest pilots have that attitude. I’ve seen several on here that are shocked, pissed, and embarrassed by the actions of SAPA and a (small) handful of line pilots. As usual, the aviation forums are quick to naively lump all 4,000+ SkyWest pilots into one homogenous group.

Nope, said Skywest posters on here. If I used to many pronouns through edits and confused you that's of course on both of us. It's the first sentence.

 

[jynxyjoe]

The monkey's got a point though. There are far too many pilots who, prior to this whole deal, wouldn't have trusted SAPA if they said that water is wet that simply fell in line and joined the mob in supporting this idiotic jumpseat war. The more I talk to my fellow pilots, the more I realize that those of us who thought this was a bad idea are a definite minority. While there has been some skepticism creeping back in wondering just exactly what was gained by starting a jumpseat war then later agreeing to what is essentially the original "unacceptable" proposal, the newly enlarged SAPA Faithful continue to believe their actions were righteous, and it's not just a small handful of pilots that seem to have been converted.

So it's mob mentality then? To me these pilots are either lying to themselves because the truth is they LOVE kool-aid, non union, super independent away from the herd, best of the best of the best with honors weirdness. Or they are completely playing stupid and just lying and rationalizing the lying because the feel committed to their Skywest identity.

Maybe you charge the castle as a mob and ur perspective on reality just bends.

It just damn strange. In the Endeavor days the bear came to eat us, and while 500 were gonna stay and ride things out, 2300 of us were out the door or about 600-700 close to it with class dates. The bear relented of course and the money and respect came back, and every thing was progressing. Not the, "there's no union and we're stuck in the mud we're hopeful and hope is progress", more like "we've got a formal process to address union pilot issues in a timely manner both sides are committed to".

 

[GypsyPilot]

Nope, said Skywest posters on here. If I used to many pronouns through edits and confused you that's of course on both of us. It's the first sentence.

Ok. Every single SkyWest person I keep in contact with is pissed off at SAPA and this whole mess. They are all seriously trying to get out the door, so definitely have a different attitude compared to the lifers.

The point is, I just hate to see those guys lumped in with the guys you’re talking about. It’s extremely frustrating for them, as you can hopefully imagine.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Ok. Every single SkyWest person I keep in contact with is pissed off at SAPA and this whole mess. They are all seriously trying to get out the door, so definitely have a different attitude compared to the lifers.

The point is, I just hate to see those guys lumped in with the guys you’re talking about. It’s extremely frustrating for them, as you can hopefully imagine.

Sure sure. I get that. I'm just having the same conversation with myself with how, on this board, with so much peeking behind the viel, are JC skywest posters running up SAPAs wing like union guys beat them with a tire iron.

 

[GypsyPilot]

Sure sure. I get that. I'm just having the same conversation with myself with how, on this board, with so much peeking behind the viel, are JC skywest posters running up SAPAs wing like union guys beat them with a tire iron.

Yeah, I don’t get that either.

 

[chrisreedrules]

The point is that regardless of who is to ultimately blame and which pilots took a stand with SAPA and who stood against... The fallout is the same. SkyWest pilots will feel repercussions from this. Put a real bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth.

 

[killbilly]

It moves in generations. The “old guard” you’re referring to is who ran off the actual “old guard”. The Newbies become “old guard” eventually and then a new crop will eventually run them off.

if you’re claiming to be “old guard” and you don’t remember Aloft, Chunk, Eagle,FlyChicaga or Ophir, chances are, you’re one of the newer generations.

Check out the scene with “The Engineer” and Neo in The Matrix. Yes, it’s the same thing.

Sigh.

It was “The Architect.”

I remember the old guard. I miss Lloyd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jynxyjoe]

Sigh.

It was “The Architect.”

I remember the old guard. I miss Lloyd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Just saw on my calendar the anniversary of Ben Hills accident is tomorrow. God damned planet keeps spinning whether we want it to or not.

 

[Karnage]

...because we are "so successful at providing them money".

Ugh, this attitude has become WAY too pervasive among our employees, and not just the pilots. Every time I see or hear that I wanna ask them to repeat after me, "we are a sub-contractor, we are an expense item on the balance sheet, we do not "provide them money", and we are easily replaceable." But no, all I hear is how much United (or any of our partners for that matter) NEED us, and we are too essential to them simply because they can't replace us overnight. While true, all it will take is not renewing a few contracts or us tripping a few too many performance clauses and all of a sudden flying will disappear. Most people that work here fail to realize that most of our contracts with our mainline partners aren't single contracts for large quantities of flying, but a collection of small contracts for 20 planes here, 30 planes there. None of which are exactly impossible to replace.

To paraphrase Mrs. White, "regional sub-contractors should be like Kleenex, cheap, reliable, and disposable."

 

[Richman]

This is just bizarre. Skywest folks on here, convinced and self assured of their leverage, playing the tough guy/gal, and won't let facts change their minds. Then wrong, everyone sees they're wrong, and they pretend they're declaring victory, and I'm sitting here saying the Skywest gang has no clothes (Trumpian).

Then complete detachment from reality of events, never admitting fault and jumping through giant stupid hoops to pretend like there's some sort of deeper picture we're all too dull to see, and if I haven't said it already-and I have- not admitting fault for anything and pretending they were always right and the victim (Clintonian).

Am I the only one seeing this? Yes we're all humans and a little goofy but, there's something more goofy going on here.

It's hardly the only time that's ever happened, not just at SKW.

As I posted before, it's due to that weird cult of personality thing that some "cycles of groups" get into.

 

[Richman]

It moves in generations. The “old guard” you’re referring to is who ran off the actual “old guard”. The Newbies become “old guard” eventually and then a new crop will eventually run them off.

if you’re claiming to be “old guard” and you don’t remember Aloft, Chunk, Eagle,FlyChicaga or Ophir, chances are, you’re one of the newer generations.

Check out the scene with “The Engineer” and Neo in The Matrix. Yes, it’s the same thing.

Blast from the past:

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sorry, I’ve been adulting.....

I’m glad I wasn’t flying but I’d prefer to bring them along and talk. FOM never got changed. I actually thought if I’d call off if CA wanted to deny. Never got to that point for me.

I usually try and fly the airline I did the trip. AA or UA, but it’s because they are usually within 29 minutes of each other.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And that was my point even before the actual war started Oct 15. As a CA, you're "bound" by the FOM. Not some email threatening. So honest question. Without any FOM change, did any Skywest pilot actually think the company or the FAA would come down on their certificates for taking a UAL jumpseater?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It moves in generations. The “old guard” you’re referring to is who ran off the actual “old guard”. The Newbies become “old guard” eventually and then a new crop will eventually run them off.

if you’re claiming to be “old guard” and you don’t remember Aloft, Chunk, Eagle,FlyChicaga or Ophir, chances are, you’re one of the newer generations.

Check out the scene with “The Engineer” and Neo in The Matrix. Yes, it’s the same thing.

I think the top 5 oldest longevity here still active probably include DE727UPS, mrivc211 , and I ?

Heck, I remember Tomcattr the fake F14 pilot and "theWife" whose husband was Corbin. And kellwolf, going through Skymates, saw him in MEM at Pinnacle, and last I heard he went to jetBlue. He was a regular here but now gone like many others.

In my case I joined Sept 2001 at 17 because 9/11 had just happened and I was looking for advice on how to proceed into this career field.

 

[Richman]

I think the top 5 oldest longevity here have to be DE727UPS, mrivc211 , and I ?

Heck, I remember Tomcattr the fake F14 pilot and "theWife" whose husband was Corbin. And kellwolf, going through Skymates, saw him in MEM at Pinnacle, and last I heard he went to jetBlue. He was a regular here but now gone like many others.

In my case I joined Sept 2001 at 17 because 9/11 had just happened and I was looking for advice on how to proceed into this career field.

3/2003 here. Mostly lurked but then decided to bug @Derg on a more regular basis.

The screen shot from above was from Flightinfo from 1998...basically right after the dawn of interweb forums. Thanks to the Internet Archive, nothing is ever deleted. Webboards didn't even become a thing until about 1996 except for the truly geeky, (except for Usenet, but bots killed them before they went mainstream). PPW came as an offshoot when moderation at FI got to be too obnoxious, which, ironically, is why I left PPW later on. APC came later. 2008 or so if I recall.

AVSIG was on CServe for a LONG time, but that wasn't really a airline group.

Boards ebb and flow, but Facebook has trashed most of them. There's something about FB that brings out someone's inner narcissist, something that forums somehow reduce to some degree.

Very few independent boards these days. Most have been sold off to IB or similar outfits when they get even marginal traffic. That or you get spammed with ads.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

The point is that regardless of who is to ultimately blame and which pilots took a stand with SAPA and who stood against... The fallout is the same. SkyWest pilots will feel repercussions from this. Put a real bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth.

When your company has fornicated over so many in the industry thanks to some extreme kool aid drinkers, maybe it’s not the best idea to rock the boat. No love lost.

 

[SteveC]

3/2003 here. Mostly lurked but then decided to bug @Derg on a more regular basis.

The screen shot from above was from Flightinfo from 1998...basically right after the dawn of interweb forums. Thanks to the Internet Archive, nothing is ever deleted. Webboards didn't even become a thing until about 1996 except for the truly geeky, (except for Usenet, but bots killed them before they went mainstream). PPW came as an offshoot when moderation at FI got to be too obnoxious, which, ironically, is why I left PPW later on. APC came later. 2008 or so if I recall.

AVSIG was on CServe for a LONG time, but that wasn't really a airline group.

Boards ebb and flow, but Facebook has trashed most of them. There's something about FB that brings out someone's inner narcissist, something that forums somehow reduce to some degree.

Very few independent boards these days. Most have been sold off to IB or similar outfits when they get even marginal traffic. That or you get spammed with ads.

Sounds familiar. I really liked AVSIG back in the day, and had similar experiences as you with FI and PPW. Joined here a couple months after you, about the time I was getting serious about a career change to aviation.