The Great Jumpseat War of 2019

Even that doesn’t work.
Yep,
What about over the headphones on a deadhead? You gotta have something on to help ignore/avoid the barrage of questions, while you're DH'ing in uniform.
Nope, didn't work for me even with my QC25s on and plugged in watching "Green Book". Dude had to tap me midway through the flight and start asking questions. Needless to say, I didn't get to finish the movie. I even tried the answer-the-question-then-quickly-put-the-headohones-back-on technique and he didn't pick up on it.
 
Nope, didn't work for me even with my QC25s on and plugged in watching "Green Book". Dude had to tap me midway through the flight and start asking questions. Needless to say, I didn't get to finish the movie. I even tried the answer-the-question-then-quickly-put-the-headohones-back-on technique and he didn't pick up on it.
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It's like that men's rights thing, how to talk to women with headphones. Step (1) don't. Four boxes.
 
so when is the student council going to grow up?

Never.

I've seen this play a number of times, at a few different theaters, just with different productions and actors. This happens exactly the same way every time, so much so, I swear there is a book somewhere with these exact steps laid out.

This is generally how it rolls:

1) In their mind, they're always right. Different participants have different motivations. They think they're the smartest people, sticking with their bros no matter what, greasing for a "real" management gig, or they're simply a true believer. Ultimately it doesn't matter.

2) They'll react badly to anyone with a different option because see #1. You're either wrong in their mind, going against management, crapping on their buddy or messing up their good deal. Any which way, you're the bad person, and need to be squelched. When they can't kill the different point of view, they'll try to drown it in the "repeat something often enough and it becomes the truth", and when that doesn't work, they'll get personal.

3) When, ultimately, everyone notices how messed up things are, and elect to go a different direction, they'll protest loudly and THEN totally salt the earth, because only THEY are allowed to be right.

4) They'll all hold grudges, look for payback and otherwise poop on whatever good things come down the pike later, even if their personal situation benefits from it.

Now you would think that some form of compromise or "hey, maybe these other guys have a point" would enter into the conversation at any one of these steps, but there is always some kind of cult of personality in play....either with one person in particular or a tight group of buddies. This bubble is pretty much immune to any kind of reason. My theory, and it is only that, is that there is some kind of internal peer pressure, alpha-influence group dynamic going on. Even people on the outside of the orbit are drawn back in by the dynamic. It's really kind of weird to see it in action, even with people who can nominally think for themselves. Even people who are ejected from the group for, gosh, having different ideas, act in some really strange co-dependent fashion afterwards.
 
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well, looks like they finally came to their senses and signed the agreement.

The way I'm reading it the United guys came to their own senses too and actually sat down and negotiated an amicable "reciprocal" agreement instead of just forcing their terms on everybody. Thankfully this part of the mess of is over. Now we can all get back to jumpseating on each others planes and piss and moan at each other about how bad and wronged we were from this agreement. Whatever passes the time.
 
The way I'm reading it the United guys came to their own senses too and actually sat down and negotiated an amicable "reciprocal" agreement instead of just forcing their terms on everybody. Thankfully this part of the mess of is over. Now we can all get back to jumpseating on each others planes and piss and moan at each other about how bad and wronged we were from this agreement. Whatever passes the time.


Nothing was 'forced'. This was brewing for years with multiple discussions going back and forth.

Also, remember, it isn't a Skywest tail. They own NONE of the flying. If United wants priorities similar to Delta and American, that is more than amicable.

It will also be a very one sided discussion to any Skywest or RAH pilot who wants the jumpseat of the plane I am operating on. Some of the cowardice shown (having Gate Agents deny the Jumpseat instead of doing it yourself) will be discussed and mentoring will ensue.
 
Nothing was 'forced'. This was brewing for years with multiple discussions going back and forth.

Also, remember, it isn't a Skywest tail. They own NONE of the flying. If United wants priorities similar to Delta and American, that is more than amicable.

If nothing was forced than why did United cone out say the jumpseat priorities WILL be changed on the 15th regardless of it we liked it or not, forcing Skywest and Republic into commiting the big no no of withholding their jumpseats? If there were negotiations from United this whole time then why force the priority without agreements from all parties?
 
Also, remember, it isn't a Skywest tail. They own NONE of the flying. If United wants priorities similar to Delta and American, that is more than amicable.

You can argue that back and forth all day long on that point. Our position is yes it is very much Skywests tail and Uniteds ownership of the flying ends right there at the step of the flight deck. If I'm building you house, you're damn right it's your house but you better not put one finger on my hammer.
 
It will also be a very one sided discussion to any Skywest or RAH pilot who wants the jumpseat of the plane I am operating on. Some of the cowardice shown (having Gate Agents deny the Jumpseat instead of doing it yourself) will be discussed and mentoring will ensue.

I actually dont have too much issue with that. If you're going to toe the union line better do it with some pride.
 
You can argue that back and forth all day long on that point. Our position is yes it is very much Skywests tail and Uniteds ownership of the flying ends right there at the step of the flight deck. If I'm building you house, you're damn right it's your house but you better not put one finger on my hammer.

An Express Pilot is on the flight deck because of the feed needed on the tail. Also if an accident occurs in that flight deck United/Delta/American will be paying, not Skywest. Ask me how I know....
 
If nothing was forced than why did United cone out say the jumpseat priorities WILL be changed on the 15th regardless of it we liked it or not, forcing Skywest and Republic into commiting the big no no of withholding their jumpseats? If there were negotiations from United this whole time then why force the priority without agreements from all parties?

Because after years of back and forth sometimes you just need to implement something even if you can't get everyone to agree with it. This has literally been going on 10+ years.
 
I am very satisfied with the new jumpseat agreement, and glad UAL MEC came to the table.

Very happy to have my UAL brethren and sistren back on the jumpseat.

1. FAA / company “must ride.”
2. Own metal
3. Own metal dx
4. UAL/UAX by TOC
5. UAL/UAX DX / OAL pilots (TOC)
6. OAL DX
etc.
 
I am very satisfied with the new jumpseat agreement, and glad UAL MEC came to the table.

Very happy to have my UAL brethren and sistren back on the jumpseat.

1. FAA / company “must ride.”
2. Own metal
3. Own metal dx
4. UAL/UAX by TOC
5. UAL/UAX DX / OAL pilots (TOC)
6. OAL DX
etc.

Ummm, how is that different than what was 'forced' on Skywest?
 
An Express Pilot is on the flight deck because of the feed needed on the tail. Also if an accident occurs in that flight deck United/Delta/American will be paying, not Skywest. Ask me how I know....
Doesnt mean it's yours. Just becasue you contract out that work doesnt mean you own the tools. You give that up when you contract it out. Thats the whole point. United could cancel all that flying with skywest and Skywest could turn around and fly those routes as their own brand, sell all that lift to Alaska, ship them all south America and do whatever they want with it (unlucky but hopefully you get the point). You dont own the tools of a sub contractor!
 
Because after years of back and forth sometimes you just need to implement something even if you can't get everyone to agree with it. This has literally been going on 10+ years.
And at the end of the day, United had to back off on a few items as did the Skywest and Republic. Sometimes it takes a little push to get things unstuck.
 
I am very satisfied with the new jumpseat agreement, and glad UAL MEC came to the table.

Very happy to have my UAL brethren and sistren back on the jumpseat.

1. FAA / company “must ride.”
2. Own metal
3. Own metal dx
4. UAL/UAX by TOC
5. UAL/UAX DX / OAL pilots (TOC)
6. OAL DX
etc.
cool, so the exact same thing that was originally proposed. I wouldn't call changing "approved united personnel" to "must ride" coming to the table. It's clarifying what they meant in the first place and looks like they got exactly what they wanted.
 
And at the end of the day, United had to back off on a few items as did the Skywest and Republic. Sometimes it takes a little push to get things unstuck.
what did united back off on? because i'm failing to see anything.
 
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