Cathay Pacific

Flyinthrew

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
So, often as a 19 year military guy, I am a stranger in a strange land when it comes to the airline pilot world. Lifelong love of aviation gives me enough of a foundation to be able to pick my way through a lot of it, but not all. I have no idea what responses this question is going to elicit, but I'd rather ask it here than at APC. What are the reasons a qualified individual (American) should or should not have an interest in Cathay Pacific?
 
A lot of CX pilots live near me, and several left CX and now work with me at FDX.

If you’re a US citizen, I’m not sure why you would do it unless you really wanted to live in Hong Kong. From what I understand, they’ve really cut down the housing allowance. HKG is extremely expensive, so that’s a big consideration.

It seems like your job is always in peril during the numerous checking events they have. Also, the political situation in HKG is pretty dynamic right now... Not sure I’d want to hitch my wagon to this area for the long term (as much as I do love HKG!). China is determined to make this place like the mainland, which is NOT a good thing IMHO.

Just my perspective as an outsider...
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Don't they have merit-based upgrades? :confused:
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Yes.

When I worked as a gate agent at SFO in the late 2000s, there were several Cathay commuters who would just buy full fare airline tickets(I think a lot of Asian airlines have crappy Zed/Offline Nonrev bennies) to BOI, RNO, SLC, ect and were SFO based with CX. Back then, all the ones I met were very happy, and they said a trip was almost always SFO-HKG, off, HKG-???, layover, ???-HKG, off, HKG-SFO(sometimes as a dead head) over the course of 5-6 days, followed by at least that many off.

However, in the last 3 or 4 years I've talked to several Cathay pilots, some of them at length, and none were happy. They say CX is going the way of Emirates, trying to milk pilots for all they can give with fewer days off while punitive actions are common. One of the guys, who I think some other JCers know, was the youngest 777 Captain they ever had and loved the place, talk to him now and it is another story. Sad to see great companies go this way...

For what it is worth, I had a phone interview about their cadet program many years ago. There was no good gouge at the time, just that they would ask random technical questions that vary. After being asked the approximate PSI of 777s tires and the long/lat of HKG, I knew I wasn't getting in haha.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Yes.

When I worked as a gate agent at SFO in the late 2000s, there were several Cathay commuters who would just buy full fare airline tickets(I think a lot of Asian airlines have crappy Zed/Offline Nonrev bennies) to BOI, RNO, SLC, ect and were SFO based with CX. Back then, all the ones I met were very happy, and they said a trip was almost always SFO-HKG, off, HKG-???, layover, ???-HKG, off, HKG-SFO(sometimes as a dead head) over the course of 5-6 days, followed by at least that many off.

However, in the last 3 or 4 years I've talked to several Cathay pilots, some of them at length, and none were happy. They say CX is going the way of Emirates, trying to milk pilots for all they can give with fewer days off while punitive actions are common. One of the guys, who I think some other JCers know, was the youngest 777 Captain they ever had and loved the place, talk to him now and it is another story. Sad to see great companies go this way...

For what it is worth, I had a phone interview about their cadet program many years ago. There was no good gouge at the time, just that they would ask random technical questions that vary. After being asked the approximate PSI of 777s tires and the long/lat of HKG, I knew I wasn't getting in haha.
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Sounds like a hard pass to me.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I really really wanted to make going out there and working for Cathay/Dragon seem like a good idea. Even with a thick pair of rosed colored glasses and my wife egging me on I decided it would be a pretty bad idea.
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I cannot imagine trying to start a life in HKG unless you were planning on maybe 5 years tops. The Chinese are bound and determined to take everything good about Hong Kong and destroy it. They'll eventually win barring a large military backing the HKG people and the HKG people breaking off something like Taiwan.
 
That answers that. It was 100% not on my radar, but an old friend said "Hey, my brother in law works at Cathay Pacific and LERVS it. Want me to put you in contact?" I kinda shrugged, and said sure because I knew there were plenty of Americans there, but I really had no idea.
 
z987k said:
I cannot imagine trying to start a life in HKG unless you were planning on maybe 5 years tops. The Chinese are bound and determined to take everything good about Hong Kong and destroy it. They'll eventually win barring a large military backing the HKG people and the HKG people breaking off something like Taiwan.
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Yup. I hate that because I absolutely love that city.

I flew with a dude a few weeks ago. “I hate HKG. I can never find anything to do there.”
 
Flyinthrew said:
That answers that. It was 100% not on my radar, but an old friend said "Hey, my brother in law works at Cathay Pacific and LERVS it. Want me to put you in contact?" I kinda shrugged, and said sure because I knew there were plenty of Americans there, but I really had no idea.
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Seems like you already got enough info, but to be more specific Cathay has a number of different pay scales. The original "A" scale had housing allowance alone of something like $9000/month; the "B" scale was around $5000 month; the newer "C" scale much less. A reasonable small apartment would probably run $4000/month rent.

Top that off with the mainland takeover of the country and it is not even close to a desirable place to go anymore.
 
typhoonpilot said:
Seems like you already got enough info, but to be more specific Cathay has a number of different pay scales. The original "A" scale had housing allowance alone of something like $9000/month; the "B" scale was around $5000 month; the newer "C" scale much less. A reasonable small apartment would probably run $4000/month rent.

Top that off with the mainland takeover of the country and it is not even close to a desirable place to go anymore.
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Nice to see you back on here, @typhoonpilot
 
Sorry, just now seeing this thread. CX used to be probably one of the best jobs in the airline world. When I came here the US industry was in a heap and it was a great opportunity. However, in the current environment there really would be no reason to come to CX for an American. The new contract and pay scale you would join on is not competitive in any way to a US legacy carrier. Most of my good friends that I joined with are all gone. We were hired into the US bases and most stayed there and did not come to HKG. Back when I joined you came to HKG to make a ton of money through the housing allowance. The company bought you an apartment and paid it off in a few years. You were then eligible to get another one. So many of the guys that came here own several apartments in one of the top 3 most expensive cities in the world. That all changed when the government placed a huge stamp duty on expats buying property here in order to slow down the real estate market. It was intended to deter the mainland Chinese from overpaying in cash to get their money out of the mainland. It didn't slow them down but made it all but impossible for the pilot level money (even with a $10,000+ housing allowance on top of salary) to buy anything because the up front money was enormous.

Training events here can be stressful when you are new but that part is actually getting better. Captain upgrades are a combination of seniority and somewhat merit based. When your seniority is getting close you do three simulators and an oral interview called a PCA. You pass all of that then a board reviews your history. At that point you get categorized. If you are Cat A then when your seniority hits and you want to upgrade then you can take it. If you are categorized anything else then you aren't eligible. Then you have to pass the command course and roughly half don't make it through that.

As of now the initial upgrade is in HKG and you may never get back to a US base. That is why many of the guys left recently. We had a LOU to open a large JFK 777 base which would have meant upgrade in the US for us. That fizzled and the flood gates opened with guys leaving once that was off the table.

We are a separate union in the US with a lot of protections that the HKG guys don't have because HKG doesn't have very favorable labor laws. We were mostly hired into the 747 freighter fleet which was run as a junior fleet concept at the time. That is the time period when a lot of Americans came here for the reasons I mentioned above. Quick upgrades in the US and pay scales way over the contracts the US carriers had at the time. As with everything times have changed.

So, that was a long winded way to say that a qualified American has so much opportunity right now in the US that it wouldn't make much sense in 2019 to come here for an American. Much of my career was in the "lost decade" and this job was great during that time. The actual flying part of the job is still great.

As was mentioned above, our travel within the US is a low priority on everyone. We travel as a ZED fare and no ability to jumpseat. Because of that a lot do buy full fare tickets. It is a bit disheartening as the caterer's buddy pass get the last seat and the two cockpit jumpseats go home empty while you run to the next gate to hopefully get on. We are ineligible for CASS so can't sit in the cockpit and even if we could, CX would not want to reciprocate the free ride.

Hope that gives a little insight.
 
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