What Would You Do? Regionals to Majors

Luftwaffles

Well-Known Member
If you were a junior FO in my position, what should I be actively doing in order to improve my chances of moving on to a major carrier as quickly as possible?

Primary Goal: to work for a Chicago-based major airline (United, American, Frontier, or Spirit)
Secondary Goal: to work for any of the 'Big 6' (UAL/DAL/AAL/SWA/FDX/UPS)
Tertiary Goal: to work for for any major airline U/LCCs

I have strong family ties to the Chicago area and would like to remain here so my own family can be near relatives. I would really rather not commute, but I wouldn't turn down DAL or the big cargo carriers if they called.

Background
- 2,000+ total time
- 1,000+ military helicopter hours
- 200 SIC Part 121 hours and will be accumulating 80+ hours a month now that I'm a line holder
- Finishing Masters Degree (est. 3.85 GPA), Bachelors with a 3.5 GPA
- I have my Commercial Single Engine Land & Sea + Commercial Glider, CFI-A, CFII-A, MEI, CFI-H, CFII-H, AGI & IGI (if that matters or helps on apps)
- I was a helicopter instructor & evaluator in the military (if that counts for anything)
- A few years of cumulative volunteer experience that stopped in 2016

Future Considerations
- I should hit my 1,000 hours SIC to upgrade by Summer 2020
- I am at an AAG wholly-owned regional, but with flow projected at 7-8 years, I am just happy it forces attrition from the top

Questions
1. What additional experience, activities, or credentials will help bolster my major airline apps?
Any particular type of volunteer experience, organizational affiliations, education, airline-specific jobs, union volunteering, job fairs, etc. now or in the future when I have more 121 experience?

2. Are AirlineApps (or Pilot Credentials) and/or resume review services worthwhile? What has your experience been and do you have any advice/recommendations?
If you have had a positive experience, which services to you recommend and why?

3. When would you recommend attending interview prep services (Emerald Coast, Marshall Cage, RST, etc.), if at all?
Additionally, what are the pros and cons in choosing one service over the other? I'm assuming some specialize over others.

4. What networking tips & pointers would you give in order to obtain internal letters of recommendation for the majors?
This is probably the weakest area of my apps. Most of my aviation career was spent in the military. I didn't do "RTP" like the exodus of mil helicopter pilots are presently doing, but as of today, military helicopter experience doesn't seem to be worth a lot to major carriers as most of these mil helicopter pilots are still slugging it out in the regionals. Mil FW guys, collegiate aviation programs, and even some 141/61 CFIs have a much better network in the airline world. I am wondering what practical ways I can get myself out there more in order to network better with pilots working in the big leagues.

5. Is it worth it to leave my regional before getting 1,000 or more TPIC to go to Frontier (or even Spirit)?
I know TPIC seems to be the main discriminator in getting hired at the 'Big 6,' but F9 has recently been hiring mil rotorheads with zero 121 TPIC – I may stand a chance of getting picked up. If they grow as projected, getting in during the next 18 months or so seems like a great opportunity. My main concern is that F9's plans don't come to fruition or they get bought out/merge with, say, Spirit, and upgrade time or projected growth go out the window. I might be kicking myself when I could have held out for possibly getting hired at UAL, SWA, or flowing to AAL and have better career progression while living in the Chicago area. Additionally, how big of a base is ORD for F9 & NK? UAL and AAL have an overwhelming presence and seems better for someone that wants to be Chicago based, but if F9 or NK's bases are stagnant or even shrinking, it's probably not work it.

For what it's worth, I have been a long-time lurker and found the attitudes and advice from people here to be far better in comparison to those at "the other airline pilot forums." ;) Looking forward to getting a discussion going that may help others.
 
I don't have a lot of advice but I will say with a military background you *should* be able to get picked up by United or SWA. As for NK I wouldn't do it if you're just looking for an upgrade. We don't have an airplane order on the books or anything that would really add to our fleet (we are getting a few planes here and there from defunct airlines but nothing in big numbers). As for an ORD base as an FO I would think it wouldn't be to hard to get but as a CA its been tough. I live in ORD and commute to FLL to stay off reserve as Chicago hasn't had a lot of growth or movement really. I realistically see us merging with Frontier at some point in time. I would certainly apply to everyone without the TPIC time though don't know until you try!
 
I was hired at an ULCC with 0 121 PIC.
There is nothing restricting me from applying elsewhere. There have been a number of dudes leave for other airlines. Whatever floats their boats.

I’m slugging it out on reserve in ORD as a pretty junior CA. I live in base. I’m content on where I am.
I’m still a rotorhead weekend-warrior, and very rarely break guarantee.
@Autothrust Blue can fill you in better about the FO side of ORD. I’m not sure if they are using them.

NK is also hiring 56/month for the next long while. We’re growing, but I doubt you’ll see an upgrade as fast as I or ^^eagle421 was able to take advantage of.

My thoughts about being an ULCC FO: making 6 figures as a year 2 person seems better than $80-90k as an RJ captain. But what do I know? I’m just sitting in my own hangar with my own toys while not getting called for a trip.
 
How about mastering your trade, first and foremost?
1. What additional experience, activities, or credentials will help bolster my major airline apps?
Make sure you learn and master the "swing of things" first.

2. Are AirlineApps (or Pilot Credentials) and/or resume review services worthwhile? What has your experience been and do you have any advice/recommendations?
Don't pay too much for one, but yeah, get one, once you're ready to apply. Having someone detail-oriented look it over is a good plan.

3. When would you recommend attending interview prep services (Emerald Coast, Marshall Cage, RST, etc.), if at all?
When you have an interview and not before. I'm a fan of either ECIC or Centerline.

Note, you should have some good flying stories to tell, which means you need to do some flying. ;)
5. Is it worth it to leave my regional before getting 1,000 or more TPIC to go to Frontier (or even Spirit)?
I've done both so I'm the wrong guy to ask. I certainly have an opinion on it, too.

That said, I think my class only had one person that didn't have beaucoup turbine Captain time either.

Apply and see what happens. In the meantime, fly airplanes.
 
I don't have a lot of advice but I will say with a military background you *should* be able to get picked up by United or SWA. As for NK I wouldn't do it if you're just looking for an upgrade. We don't have an airplane order on the books or anything that would really add to our fleet (we are getting a few planes here and there from defunct airlines but nothing in big numbers). As for an ORD base as an FO I would think it wouldn't be to hard to get but as a CA its been tough. I live in ORD and commute to FLL to stay off reserve as Chicago hasn't had a lot of growth or movement really. I realistically see us merging with Frontier at some point in time. I would certainly apply to everyone without the TPIC time though don't know until you try!


Are you saying you commute to FLL as lineholding CA, but would be rsv CA in ORD? Dang, I thought FLL was senior. If you live in ORD, is reserve that bad you don’t want to be rsv in base?
 
Are you saying you commute to FLL as lineholding CA, but would be rsv CA in ORD? Dang, I thought FLL was senior. If you live in ORD, is reserve that bad you don’t want to be rsv in base?
I’m a RSV CA living in base.
We lost the ability to drop on GREEN days. Then lost the ability to drop at all with PBS, so schedule manipulation is none existent, for the most part.
 
I’m a RSV CA living in base.
We lost the ability to drop on GREEN days. Then lost the ability to drop at all with PBS, so schedule manipulation is none existent, for the most part.


Is your reserve 12 days on with a 6 on 4 off stagger?

Ours is 12 off as 5 off, 3, 2, and 2. Now due to more commuters it’s 5 off, 3 off, and a 4 off.

If you drop on a Green Day, that does mean you lose pay for that day right? So then 75 - 3.5 or whatever the value is?

I dunno, I’d still take reserve in base than commute to a line for a narrowbody only operation.

Our LA bus CA is way over staffed. For July there were a 128 total lines and 50 reserves. 50! So pretty much every day as a reserve you could swap around. For dropping, we got a new provision you can drop the last day of a reserve stretch, but it’s only approved the night before once all trips are assigned and if tomorrow still shows green. So in that sense it’s almost a useless provision waiting to find out the night before.
 
1000 TPIC is a bare minimum that gets your app into the computer pipeline for review. Competitive new hires, at least at UPS, have far more than that when called and many have heavy PIC (Atlas, Kalitta, Emirates, Military heavy transport, etc..) along with International experience.1000 SIC turbine means very little except adding to total time.

Helicopter time....while cool and I’m personally a little jealous, unfortunately doesn’t mean much to recruiters at the majors. Yea...I know, they’re are always the exceptions to the rule but it’s a very small minority and not the norm.

Good job on the Masters and high GPA along with all the civilian CFI ratings and tickets. Shows you to be well rounded individual and interesting candidate.

What’s gonna help you at this point? More time and experience in fixed wing jet ops. Upgrade as soon as possible and build PIC turbine. Network, network.....network. You’re already doing this so just be patient...it’ll happen. You’re in a great position for future advancement.
 
Do something on your days off that is worth talking about.

Make it off probation.

Volunteer for union work. (New hire mentor is my current gig, very rewarding.)

Go to job fairs and meet people.

Don’t be an ass.

Not necessarily in that order.
 
Do something on your days off that is worth talking about.

Make it off probation.

Volunteer for union work. (New hire mentor is my current gig, very rewarding.)

Go to job fairs and meet people.

Don’t be an ass.

Not necessarily in that order.

And please don’t forget where you came from.

Over the years of JC, so many guys went from “Please help me!” to “Screw you all, I’ve got mine” while pulling up the rope the climbed.

Be good to one another. Rinse, repeat
 
Questions
1. What additional experience, activities, or credentials will help bolster my major airline apps?
Any particular type of volunteer experience, organizational affiliations, education, airline-specific jobs, union volunteering, job fairs, etc. now or in the future when I have more 121 experience?

While it can’t hurt finding your favorite airline’s pet volunteer project and helping with that, any sort of volunteering is fine. Non political union volunteering is great too. I personally waited until I got 1000 121 hours before I volunteered with the union so I’d be eligible for upgrade and meet hiring mins for majors.

2. Are AirlineApps (or Pilot Credentials) and/or resume review services worthwhile? What has your experience been and do you have any advice/recommendations?
If you have had a positive experience, which services to you recommend and why?

Yes, you must do the services your future airline uses. You don’t get to pick, the airline does.

3. When would you recommend attending interview prep services (Emerald Coast, Marshall Cage, RST, etc.), if at all?
Additionally, what are the pros and cons in choosing one service over the other? I'm assuming some specialize over others.

Yes, but only when you have an interview. I used EC and was happy with them.


4. What networking tips & pointers would you give in order to obtain internal letters of recommendation for the majors?
This is probably the weakest area of my apps. Most of my aviation career was spent in the military. I didn't do "RTP" like the exodus of mil helicopter pilots are presently doing, but as of today, military helicopter experience doesn't seem to be worth a lot to major carriers as most of these mil helicopter pilots are still slugging it out in the regionals. Mil FW guys, collegiate aviation programs, and even some 141/61 CFIs have a much better network in the airline world. I am wondering what practical ways I can get myself out there more in order to network better with pilots working in the big leagues.

1. Become active here and go to JC meet and greets and the yearly convention. I’ve not only gained lifelong friends, those friends have been awesome about recommending me.
2. RTAG. Be active on their FB group and go to the conventions.
3. Rack your brain for anyone you might have known from your early days in the Army who might be flying for the airlines and find them on FB.

5. Is it worth it to leave my regional before getting 1,000 or more TPIC to go to Frontier (or even Spirit)?
I know TPIC seems to be the main discriminator in getting hired at the 'Big 6,' but F9 has recently been hiring mil rotorheads with zero 121 TPIC – I may stand a chance of getting picked up. If they grow as projected, getting in during the next 18 months or so seems like a great opportunity. My main concern is that F9's plans don't come to fruition or they get bought out/merge with, say, Spirit, and upgrade time or projected growth go out the window. I might be kicking myself when I could have held out for possibly getting hired at UAL, SWA, or flowing to AAL and have better career progression while living in the Chicago area. Additionally, how big of a base is ORD for F9 & NK? UAL and AAL have an overwhelming presence and seems better for someone that wants to be Chicago based, but if F9 or NK's bases are stagnant or even shrinking, it's probably not work it.

Nearly everyone will say it depends... I say age plays a factor. If you choose a LCC over a regional upgrade the worst that could happen is you delay a Legacy invite for a few years while earning a good living.

And just an opinion here... many Majors/Legacies will say they “value” helicopter time. They only ones I’ve seen who truly value it - as in the TPIC/Instructor aspect of it - are Frontier and JetBlue. Maybe Spirit but I never applied to them.
 
How about mastering your trade, first and foremost?

Make sure you learn and master the "swing of things" first.

I’d say he’s clearly doing that and is simply planning for the future. He’ll be easily competitive for a better job in under a year. No harm in asking for advice. This isn’t a 22 year old riddle grad. Planning for the future does not mean they aren’t actively flying and learning. Heck, it was like 5 minutes ago I had this guy’s resume and was actively pursuing the next step. It’s working out for me.
 
Is that the same guy arrested in SDF a month or two back?

About 2-3 months back yeah that’s the guy.

I think he got out after his job in Germany to do the airline gig. By all accounts he was a weird dude. Funny but I don’t think he ever had an engagement in the helicopter so it was probably after the Army that the killing started.


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