Can anyone direct me to a step by step process?

M

MidLifeCrisis

New Member
I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong forum and ask that it be moved to the correct place if so. I have searched around the internet and am not finding exactly what I am looking for. A lot of sites likely assume I know more than I do so please treat me like I know nothing at all. I'd like a job in the flying industry, even if that means I never go past the instructor position. I'm in my mid 40's and have never flown a plane before, but I would like to. I am guessing the first step is to get a private license?

If that is not right, please correct me. What would I do after that? What is the process to gain gull time employment in this industry? What possible steps are there for someone my age after instructor? Could I ultimately fly for an airline? What would that take?

Again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge and appreciate anyone who takes the time to lay out the steps in a "for dummies" format.

Thanks
 
Step 1 I would say would be to go get a PPL and see if this is right for you... cost should be anywhere from $8-16k. Your CFI can probably answer a lot of these questions as well.
Assuming we're not talking about collegiate aviation, once you get your PPL, there are a few routes to go but ultimately you get an instrument rating, usually a multi rating, commercial rating and the somewhat optional instructor license. There are fast-track schools that offer all of these in an accelerated timeframe (9 mo-1 year) but, it costs more and once they have your money, that's basically all they see, so the quality of education can vary wildly. At some point you pop out with 250 hours and your choice is either low paying instructor job or other low time job (flying skydivers, aerial survey, pipeline patrol, 135 VFR operations, etc) but tons of people clamor over the non instructor jobs and the path of least resistance is usually just instructing. At some point if you network you might be able to get into the right seat of a bizjet/corp type gig or a PC12, otherwise at 1500 hours, you go to the regional airline of your choice.
Do you have a degree? If not, your opportunities beyond the regional airline level are pretty limited, but you still could get to that level. If you have a 4 year, you still have a chance to go to mainline after you work at a regional airline.
If there's something there you need me to clarify, I'd be happy to help!
 
DPhoenix, thank you. I do not have any college at all, but I have been in a career where training is part of what I do. I believe I follow, but to be clear:

1. Go get a Private Pilot license which I can get from pretty much any flight school. Cost you quote is in the area I thought it would be.

2. Get an instrument rating? Forgive my ignorance but I guess I would think that is part of the Private license, no?

At that point I can get an instructors certificate? I guess I am willing to "settle" for that line of work because I am toward the back half of my working years and didn't think I would likely get much further as I assume piloting jobs are difficult to get. I would certainly like to go further, but if that is as far as I get I think I would be happy. Flying corporate types around in private jets does seem pretty cool, though.

Again thank you for the reply.

Gliderboy, I appreciate the encouragement.
 
Step 1: cut a hole in a box
Step 2: put your junk in that box
Step 3: make her open the box

In all seriousness, poke around and see what’s been posted. This subject has been discussed numerous times. Don’t forget the search feature.


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Go get a demo flight from your local flight school. Decide if you’re still excited about it.

If you are, proceed to spend lots and lots of money.

Beware accelerated schools. When the instruction is good, it’s very very good. When the instruction is bad, it’s horrid.
 
Make sure you do all your homework and understand the industry before you dive in. Know exactly what ratings are necessary and the costs of getting those ratings. If you really want to do this, you will have the drive to know how to. This place is great at answering those questions along the way, but in this day and age of google all the info you’re looking for is just a few clicks away. These are the licenses needed to start becoming competitive in a career and a commercial pilot.

-Private Pilot License-
-cost around 10-12k
-A license to learn, the first knotch in a pilots belt. Mostly VFR (Visual Flight Rules) teaching you the basics and really hitting the beginning stages of good judgement and aeronautical decision making

-Instrument Rating-
-Costs around 13-20k
-This rating will teach you to fly a plane in conditions where you cannot see outside the plane. You will essentially demonstrate how to safely maneuver a plane from takeoff to landing based only of reference to the instruments
-This rating is the highest work load of book work, lots of regulations and information that you need to know in order to fly in crumby gray weather.

-Commercial Single Engine-
-Costs 20-30k. This is a wide range, as you will need either 120 in course at a 141 school or 250 TT in a 61 program.
-You will build cross country time, flying to airports that are beyond 50nm from your base training airport. The requirements vary based on the program but all at least get you to meet the FAA requirements
-You will also learn how to fly the plane towards the edges of the envelope with different maneuvers, also learning more about what a commercial license qualifies you for as far as being compensated to fly

-Multi Engine Add On-
-Costs 5-12k. Again this varies on when you complete the license during the training process in correlation with those mentioned above. Some schools will tell you the more multi time, the better. At this point in time that doesn’t hold true as long as you can build 25 TT to get to the next level.
-This rating you will fly a two engine airplane, but 30% of the flying will be done with both engines. Most flying is done with one engine inoperative so you know the effects on handling and performance during an engine out. This will also bring your instrument rating back into play, as you will shoot single engine instrument approaches to demonstrate aircraft control. Now I’m not sure if you go the private multi, that ride won’t include IFR work. But the multi commercial add on will.


After gaining the above ratings there are many ways to continue to build time to get to either 1200 or 1500 hours. These roads right now are wide open due to the depleted pool, but can be subject to change within the time you start training


Hope this helps, and please do as much research as you can before starting down the road. Also go get a class 1 medical before you start training, you will need that to fly at most places for compensation.
 
Since Seggy mentioned me, I'll point out that a lot of good advice has been handed out.

I'm surprised you've searched the internet and not found the answers you're looking for....here's how I would approach your position, as I am roughly your age and started this 10 years ago.

Too many aspiring pilots put the cart before the horse. This is a journey with a series of milestones along the way. The goal of flying for an airline is absolutely attainable and you can get there - you have to spend time and some money to start that process. Keep your eyes open as you do so, and do not target fixate; goals, desires and industries change - focus on excelling at the task at hand and suddenly you'll find yourself with a certificate in no time.

1) Check out a couple of local flight schools - their rates for aircraft rental and instruction should be comparable. Schools that have a full-motion simulator generally are indicative of a place not teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. You should also look hard into Flying Clubs - they will cost a little more up front but you save money and gain flexibility in the long run.

2) Take a discovery flight - this is usually a discounted 1-hour Discovery or Adventure flight where you get familiar with a basic training airplane and the sights and sounds of what operating a General Aviation training airplane is like. At the end, they will try and sell you on the training program they offer. This is fine; my school signs up a lot of students that way - but we're also up front with the costs. We're in an expensive area and we tell students to budget approximately $14K for a Private Pilot certificate. It takes, on average, 55-65 hours to earn the certificate despite the minimums being 35-40.

3) Did you like the flight? Hold on - you've two other things to do:

4) Are you a US citizen? If so, you're in good shape. Find your birth certificate and driver's license or passport. Not a US citizen? You need to apply for training approval with the TSA. That will cost you $130, take a couple of weeks, and you need to be fingerprinted.

5) How's your health? You need an aviation medical certificate. Seek out an Aviation Medical Examiner - local schools and pilots will have names of docs they recommend. Will cost you $100-150 or so.

You don't need the medical RIGHT AWAY, but you cannot earn your certificate without at least a 3rd class medical. Getting that out of the way and making sure you CAN hold one is a good idea, because it will keep you from wasting money to find out you cannot. If you do not have a history of drug abuse, DWI, diabetes, cardiac problems, mental illness, hyopglycemia and a few other things you should be fine.

Start there. Your first priority - if you want to do this - is understanding the costs, requirements and time commitments of the first certificate.

Try to fly as often as you can - 3 times a week is ideal. Work with instructors who will do a pre- and post-flight briefing and work from a known course syllabus.

Good luck.
 
If this is for the job: there isn’t a better job out there.

If this is for the time off: there isn’t a job with more time off.

If this is for the money: there’s a lot of money to be had.

If this is for the love of flying: that’s the icing on the cake.

It takes time and money to get to the goal, as does anything else for people with a passion. Think of it like med school. For the dumb, more party minded folk. Seriously though, you can’t beat this job. Good luck!
 
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the answers, thank you all. If my replies seem delayed it is not because I am not checking in or not interested, it's because as a noob I am on some sort of forum probation, which I totally understand.

This would ultimately be for a job replacing the job I have now. I look around where I am at and nobody is happy and I see people 10 years older than me with zero options to change careers at this point and they basically show up everyday with a gun in their mouth. I really don't want that to be me.

I'm really only looking to replace an income of $80,000/year and it seems a job in this industry should do that if I make the investment in training now.

Thank you all again, I will put the advice to good use.
 
You did mention that you do not have a college degree. There are airline pilots that do not have a college degree but not having one tends to limit your advancement options.

The limiting factor in this career change road is time and money.

You will hit training plateaus and feel like you arent progressing very well or quickly sometimes. You keep throwing time and money at the problem until you run out of one or the other or both.

Another consideration at your age is your financial situation. While in the in between phase of commercial pilot (250hrs) and ATP (1500 hrs) before you start working for an airline if that is where you want to go, your paycheck probably won’t be enough to support both living expenses and retirement contributions until you get above the regional airline level (or make captain at a regional airline.)

So if you have other people who depend on you bringing home a paycheck this is a something you will need to consider with them.
 
I wanted to add that it’ll be a marathon, not a sprint. It took me almost 10 years to get to the airlines. But I was having to juggle a full time job and a family. If money is no object, you can do it much quicker, but if you’re like most people, you will need to pace yourself as time and money allow. I will tell you, it’s definitely worth it if flying is your thing. It’s the easiest and most satisfying job I’ve ever had. Some days I look out the window and I think about all the the poor saps on the ground who are stuck in an office. It certainly has its days, but most of the time this career ultra rewarding and exciting. Good luck on whatever decision you make!
 
I've read through the posts a few times and I guess it's time to face the hard questions as I try to make a decision. If the reality is it would cost ~$70K I would say I am still in, but that's more than I thought. I guess I have to weigh the ups and downs. Most important to me is to get to a job I don't hate doing. As someone mentioned above, I can't sacrifice the financial well being of my family to do it, though.

I've got some money put away for this venture, but to get to $70K I would need to dip into my 401K money. My rudimentary understanding of that is i can borrow up to $50K and pay it back to myself with interest. The problem is once I quit the job that 401K is tied to it now becomes a dispersement and is taxed/penalized as such. I'm not so comfortable doing that, but it's an option IF and only IF the payoff at the end is able to replace the income I have now AND pay that money back.

I said all that to ask this, along the way to the ultimate goal of an ATP (I guess that's the goal, right?) would there be ways to defer the cost of acquiring hours/training. Can I work as an instructor at some point to gain hours and maybe a little money along the way? At what point can you start earning money?

I have no problem dedicating several hours each evening and on weekends towards this project and if it takes a couple years then I'm still on board. I will have to keep my regular job until this becomes a venture that pays for itself.

Anyone follow a similar path?
 
Also you won’t get a job that pays 80k for a good few years after you start. Being a CFI used to be 20-25k. Now I think it’s upwards of 40k at some places. Very rare to make 80k as CFI, unless you’re a sought after CFI in a niche market. Even at the lower rungs outside of CFI, you will be making 30-40k. Then the regionals around 40-60k until you upgrade. The first 3-4 years as a captain you will have to work hard to get in the 80’s, high 60’s low 70’s is doable at most places though. So just keep that in mind. Pay does keep going up at most places, but only in the right seat to get people in the door. Very few places have given Captains pay raises the last few years. Even cargo single pilot gigs you’re looking at 40-60k

I’ve been flying for a living since 2014. 2014-2015 I made a whopping18k and 21k. I made around 30k in 2017 and in 2018 I broke 40k. So no where close to 80k yet, even when I upgrade here in a few months I may reach 70k. I’m willing to bet my first year making 80k will be 2020 or maybe even 2021, so 6-7 years after starting my first job. Maybe not what you want to hear, but again this is why research is very necessary. It is a job you can be happy with, but if your family is starving in the process it doesn’t matter how great the view out the window is
 
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@JDean3204 Wow, if that's reality it certainly isn't what I was led to believe and that would be a deal breaker. I couldn't justify spending $60K+ to get a job making half what I do now. Yikes.
 
MidLifeCrisis said:
@JDean3204 Wow, if that's reality it certainly isn't what I was led to believe and that would be a deal breaker. I couldn't justify spending $60K+ to get a job making half what I do now. Yikes.
Click to expand...

That’s the rub - but that salary is temporary. You need to read up on how airline pilots get paid. It’s not that clear cut.




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MidLifeCrisis said:
@JDean3204 Wow, if that's reality it certainly isn't what I was led to believe and that would be a deal breaker. I couldn't justify spending $60K+ to get a job making half what I do now. Yikes.
Click to expand...

This is a 10 year process minimum.

  1. Earn private pilot certificate while working normal job. Cost 8-12K, Time 6-9 months
  2. Enroll in a full time flight school, Instrument certificate, Commercial cert, CFI cert. Cost 50-70K, Time 9-12 months.
  3. Start working as a flight instructor to build flight time. Pay 24-30K for about 12 -18 months.
  4. Get a job at a regional airline flying small jets. Pay 35-50K for about 24-36 months.
  5. Upgrade to Captian at regional airline. Pay 60-80K. Expect to work for another 3-4 years at this level minimum.
  6. Get hired at Major and start making real money.
All of the above is the best case scenario and MANY have gotten stuck at step 4 or 5. If you don't have a college degree, you will have trouble making the leap at step 6. Any recession (expected in 2020) or 9/11 type disaster will cause delays.

You will spend 200 days a year away from your family, usually at interchangeable airport hotels. Forget about being home on holidays early on. Your health will suffer due to a lack of regular exercise and a "grab whatever's open" diet. You will scare yourself silly and you will bury friends. The travel opportunities are fun, but hard to use if you have a family. At the end of the day it's a job, and can turn into a grind just like anything else.

If it sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of this, I am. Unless you LOVE flying so much that you can't imagine doing anything else, you will hate this job. If you do love flying that much, then all the airline BS is barely tolerable.

You get to see some amazing things, and go to some amazing places. Mastering the challenge of flying a machine the size of a locomotive through the air though all sorts of weather is a goal worth pursuing. Your first solo is something you will never forget, and the first student you send up solo is a feeling of accomplishment (and terror) that you will savor. People will depend on you and put their lives in your hands.
 
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