Frontier

WaterRooster said:
So 1st year pay equal to some regionals and you pay to stay. That makes no sense...
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I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but what I’m going to say is intended to help you make an important career decision:

If the things you mention are important to you, I’d seriously consider staying away from F9.

New contract or not, you’ll still be working for F9, which exists to do only one thing: Maximize profits for Indigo Partners. It’s been clearly stated that they don’t care how this is accomplished. If you just want to drive to work, fly airplanes, and don’t care who you’re doing it for, your clientele, or mind being one of the lowest-paid to do that, great. If any of those things matter to you, you are going to have a bad time. There are no indications that this will ever change.

A shiny, new A320 type rating will not open quite as many doors as some seem to think.

I left F9 after 12 years there for a legacy. The past year has been pretty tough, but not a day goes by that I don’t know that it was the absolute best career decision I’ve ever made.
 
Toobdrvr said:
I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but what I’m going to say is intended to help you make an important career decision:

If the things you mention are important to you, I’d seriously consider staying away from F9.

New contract or not, you’ll still be working for F9, which exists to do only one thing: Maximize profits for Indigo Partners. It’s been clearly stated that they don’t care how this is accomplished. If you just want to drive to work, fly airplanes, and don’t care who you’re doing it for, your clientele, or mind being one of the lowest-paid to do that, great. If any of those things matter to you, you are going to have a bad time. There are no indications that this will ever change.

A shiny, new A320 type rating will not open quite as many doors as some seem to think.

I left F9 after 12 years there for a legacy. The past year has been pretty tough, but not a day goes by that I don’t know that it was the absolute best career decision I’ve ever made.
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I couldn’t agree more with this (except I’m at spirit). At this point I’m probably staying here (or whatever it will be) for my career as I’m getting too old to really switch. Congrats on getting to a legacy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Toobdrvr said:
I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but what I’m going to say is intended to help you make an important career decision:

If the things you mention are important to you, I’d seriously consider staying away from F9.

New contract or not, you’ll still be working for F9, which exists to do only one thing: Maximize profits for Indigo Partners. It’s been clearly stated that they don’t care how this is accomplished. If you just want to drive to work, fly airplanes, and don’t care who you’re doing it for, your clientele, or mind being one of the lowest-paid to do that, great. If any of those things matter to you, you are going to have a bad time. There are no indications that this will ever change.

A shiny, new A320 type rating will not open quite as many doors as some seem to think.

I left F9 after 12 years there for a legacy. The past year has been pretty tough, but not a day goes by that I don’t know that it was the absolute best career decision I’ve ever made.
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I had the same thoughts to that post, but you put it better than I ever could. Still so happy for you and your move!
 
turbojet28 said:
That’s funny, my sources verified that the opposite was true, that there will not be paid hotels during new hire training. Gotta love the rumor mill.
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considering the company wanted this a long time ago but couldn’t because of negotiations. I even had hotel info when i went through indoc. (of course i was told that cancelled) .
 
Toobdrvr said:
I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but what I’m going to say is intended to help you make an important career decision:

If the things you mention are important to you, I’d seriously consider staying away from F9.

New contract or not, you’ll still be working for F9, which exists to do only one thing: Maximize profits for Indigo Partners. It’s been clearly stated that they don’t care how this is accomplished. If you just want to drive to work, fly airplanes, and don’t care who you’re doing it for, your clientele, or mind being one of the lowest-paid to do that, great. If any of those things matter to you, you are going to have a bad time. There are no indications that this will ever change.

A shiny, new A320 type rating will not open quite as many doors as some seem to think.

I left F9 after 12 years there for a legacy. The past year has been pretty tough, but not a day goes by that I don’t know that it was the absolute best career decision I’ve ever made.
Click to expand...

I do appreciate the input. This is actually a harder choice then I would have imagined it would be.
 
WaterRooster said:
I do appreciate the input. This is actually a harder choice then I would have imagined it would be.
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Feel free to pm me. I would be very interested in hearing your position and what you’re looking for, and am happy to help anyway I can. There are a bunch of really good current/former F9ers on here...
 
Eagle421flyer said:
I couldn’t agree more with this (except I’m at spirit). At this point I’m probably staying here (or whatever it will be) for my career as I’m getting too old to really switch. Congrats on getting to a legacy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Eh, I personally enjoy working at Spirit and don't plan on going anywhere else. The same goes for most people I fly with. That said, I would be more skeptical if I was trying to get hired today because the seniority ship has sailed until more orders are placed.
 
Toobdrvr said:
I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but what I’m going to say is intended to help you make an important career decision:

If the things you mention are important to you, I’d seriously consider staying away from F9.

New contract or not, you’ll still be working for F9, which exists to do only one thing: Maximize profits for Indigo Partners. It’s been clearly stated that they don’t care how this is accomplished. If you just want to drive to work, fly airplanes, and don’t care who you’re doing it for, your clientele, or mind being one of the lowest-paid to do that, great. If any of those things matter to you, you are going to have a bad time. There are no indications that this will ever change.

A shiny, new A320 type rating will not open quite as many doors as some seem to think.

I left F9 after 12 years there for a legacy. The past year has been pretty tough, but not a day goes by that I don’t know that it was the absolute best career decision I’ve ever made.
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Holy cow leaving after 12 yrs to start over? @jtrain609 Even with my crazy standards, man that's crazy :)

That said, I'm glad it worked out for you and that you are happier than before. If I hit 12 yrs at my shop, I'm in for life.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Holy cow leaving after 12 yrs to start over? @jtrain609 Even with my crazy standards, man that's crazy :)

That said, I'm glad it worked out for you and that you are happier than before. If I hit 12 yrs at my shop, I'm in for life.
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APC says current rates for a 12 year Captain are 162. That's a 4 year United 737 FO. Sure, there's always more to it than that, but if you have a decade or more left in your career, that's a no-brainer.
 
NickH said:
APC says current rates for a 12 year Captain are 162. That's a 4 year United 737 FO. Sure, there's always more to it than that, but if you have a decade or more left in your career, that's a no-brainer.
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True but that's comparing a ~2016ish (?) United contract to a 2005ish (?) contract with some arbitration/reduction (?) in 2011ish (?) for Frontier. Going forward if the AIP passes a max CA would be looking at $270/hr. My main concern with giving up 12 yrs would be the seniority. You're not only at the max pay step, you also probably have a fairly decent cushion underneath to continue holding a CA seat in a downturn or worse case be FO.

But @Toobdrvr sounds like he's happy and it has worked out well for him looking back, so it does work for some people.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
True but that's comparing a ~2016ish (?) United contract to a 2005ish (?) contract with some arbitration/reduction (?) in 2011ish (?) for Frontier. Going forward if the AIP passes a max CA would be looking at $270/hr. My main concern with giving up 12 yrs would be the seniority. You're not only at the max pay step, you also probably have a fairly decent cushion underneath to continue holding a CA seat in a downturn or worse case be FO.

But @Toobdrvr sounds like he's happy and it has worked out well for him looking back, so it does work for some people.
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No no, going forward the top rate would be 240 with 12% 401k, outpacing inflation by half a percent per year for 5 years, eventually ending up at 270. If this started at 270 and 15% increasing 3%/yr it would pass overwhelmingly. It may pass in its current form but it won't be overwhelming.

The fact of the matter is that this deal isn't industry average, it's bottom tier. It doesn't mean it isn't a "safe" choice, but the plain and simple fact is that it's a discount deal, which our Union has been saying for 2 years that we wouldn't accept.
 
roundout said:
No no, going forward the top rate would be 240 with 12% 401k, outpacing inflation by half a percent per year for 5 years, eventually ending up at 270. If this started at 270 and 15% increasing 3%/yr it would pass overwhelmingly. It may pass in its current form but it won't be overwhelming.

The fact of the matter is that this deal isn't industry average, it's bottom tier. It doesn't mean it isn't a "safe" choice, but the plain and simple fact is that it's a discount deal, which our Union has been saying for 2 years that we wouldn't accept.
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Not sure what overwhelming is defined as. Management's job is to get a deal with 50%+1. If it passes like this then it's a major victory for management. On the other hand, I was convinced towards the end of voting at jetBlue that they were going to turn that thing down and yet it passed with 74%. I still think this thing is gonna be a jetBlue yes ;)


Regardless, it won't matter in the long run because your new contract will be the one airline that acquires/buys/merges with Frontier.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Not sure what overwhelming is defined as. Management's job is to get a deal with 50%+1. If it passes like this then it's a major victory for management. On the other hand, I was convinced towards the end of voting at jetBlue that they were going to turn that thing down and yet it passed with 74%. I still think this thing is gonna be a jetBlue yes ;)


Regardless, it won't matter in the long run because your new contract will be the one airline that acquires/buys/merges with Frontier.
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Give me a break, use your imagination to define "overwhelming." I'd call 70/30 overwhelming. I think everyone here understands Management's goal is to get to 50%+1, the condescension is recognized and not appreciated.

It doesn't seem like so long ago that your pilot group got awarded a massive pay raise at the cost of good work rules and you were considering bailing to a legacy before being talked out of that plan. But here you are telling us we should take a deal that pays worse because it would be risky to bail to a legacy or wait for a potential TA2. What is your angle?
 
roundout said:
Give me a break, use your imagination to define "overwhelming." I'd call 70/30 overwhelming. I think everyone here understands Management's goal is to get to 50%+1, the condescension is recognized and not appreciated.

It doesn't seem like so long ago that your pilot group got awarded a massive pay raise at the cost of good work rules and you were considering bailing to a legacy before being talked out of that plan. But here you are telling us we should take a deal that pays worse because it would be risky to bail to a legacy or wait for a potential TA2. What is your angle?
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My desire to bail out to a legacy has everything to do with pilot basing and absolutely nothing to do with pilot pay/retirement/schedules. Financially I'd be okay to start over, the biggest downside being potential furlough fodder at a legacy. But I could still weather that.

I don't have an angle for you. Good luck with your vote, the only ask is you (and everyone else) make sure to vote.
 
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