JetBlue and ALPA has an AIP!

BobDDuck said:
This is the problem with using the term "market" rates.

The market rate for JetBlue is nowhere near the market rate for Delta or United.

"Industry" rate is closer to what people envision as being "fair" although even then, you will have to argue all day about what the industry is. Is a 321 a 321 across the board? Or is an airline that pretty much only flies domestic and has less than 200 airframes (Jetblue/Alaska/Spirit) an "industry" separate from the big three. Pilots hate to hear it, but the NMB has always made it pretty clear which way that line goes.
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Why not add Hawaiian in that argument? They are a fraction of all the airlines you listed but they don't count right? Hell Spirit alone is 3x the size of HA and probably flies to as many countries. By your logic HA 321 pilots should make less than Frontier pilots because ya know..... scale and all
 
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Box hauler said:
Why not add Hawaiian in that argument? They are a fraction of all the airlines you listed but they don't count right? Hell Spirit alone is 3x the size of HA and probably flies to as many countries. By your logic HA 321 pilots should make less than Frontier pilots because ya know..... scale and all
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Hmmm. Somebody is feeling a bit inferior.

HAL management made that argument too.

We made the argument that we fly wide body aircraft to actual international destinations.

We ended up between 8% and 11% behind the big three. The 787 TA that is currently out for memrat has rates just about 5% behind the big 3.

Don't take being told that realistically you are going to earn less than pilots at another carrier as being told you are worth less than pilots at another carrier.
 
BobDDuck said:
Hmmm. Somebody is feeling a bit inferior.

HAL management made that argument too.

We made the argument that we fly wide body aircraft to actual international destinations.

We ended up between 8% and 11% behind the big three. The 787 TA that is currently out for memrat has rates just about 5% behind the big 3.

Don't take being told that realistically you are going to earn less than pilots at another carrier as being told you are worth less than pilots at another carrier.
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Inferior huh? Yeah I'm pretty sure you just feel extra special. Actual international destinations? When did places like Peru become not real international? Great your wide body guys deserve wide body rates but how about the 321 or 717 people? JB pilot are worth as much as HA NB pilots regardless of how special you feel. If you're argument is scale and international you seem to have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Box hauler said:
Inferior huh? Yeah I'm pretty sure you just feel extra special. Actual international destinations? When did places like Peru become not real international? Great your wide body guys deserve wide body rates but how about the 321 or 717 people? JB pilot are worth as much as HA NB pilots regardless of how special you feel. If you're argument is scale and international you seem to have no idea what you're talking about.
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The thing I love about the internet is when things like this happen.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Both of them have experience dealing with the NMB and know what they’re talking about. You don’t. This is one of those times to listen/read instead of arguing.
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we must all be at a misunderstanding because I'm asking why they think they are worth more than JB pilots not about how the NMB thinks. I'm so happy you know my experience.... last time I checked I spent the last year with the NMB.
 
BobDDuck said:
This is the problem with using the term "market" rates.

The market rate for JetBlue is nowhere near the market rate for Delta or United.

"Industry" rate is closer to what people envision as being "fair" although even then, you will have to argue all day about what the industry is. Is a 321 a 321 across the board? Or is an airline that pretty much only flies domestic and has less than 200 airframes (Jetblue/Alaska/Spirit) an "industry" separate from the big three. Pilots hate to hear it, but the NMB has always made it pretty clear which way that line goes.
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Good point. Not to nitpick but Wiki has Jetblue at 243 airframes.
 
Box hauler said:
we must all be at a misunderstanding because I'm asking why they think they are worth more than JB pilots not about how the NMB thinks. I'm so happy you know my experience.... last time I checked I spent the last year with the NMB.
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You seem to be confusing value with financial worth.

I don't think a JetBlue pilot or a spirit pilot or who ever is worth any less than another pilot flying similar equipment to similar places. I didn't list Hawaiian originally because a) we have a mixed fleet, b) we have widebodies and c) we are, on a percentage basis, heavily international. None of those things have anything to do with the value a pilot deserves, but they do matter when you start talking about what your industry comparisons are. We got hammered on relative size. You got hammered on size (although less so) and fleet and type of operations. How do you think the Alaska guys felt being told by an arbitrator that they were number 5?

You get what you have leverage to negotiate, and outside the big 3 (who are content to pay their pilots the same as the other 2 mega carriers) every other company has a percentage behind that they are ok paying. It may be small or it may be large. But at the end of the day, that's where the buck is going to stop and my opinion of worth and your opinion of worth don't matter at all.

And side note... if you are at JetBlue and you were working with the NC close enough to have anything to do with the Board over the last year, I'd go hide from social media and the interwebz for a bit.
 
Box hauler said:
we must all be at a misunderstanding because I'm asking why they think they are worth more than JB pilots not about how the NMB thinks. I'm so happy you know my experience.... last time I checked I spent the last year with the NMB.
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You're on the NC at Spirit?
 
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