The dark side of the pilot shortage.

SWA has to be given credit where it is due - a great management team with focus on cost and efficiency and a company first focused culture from the employees.

They have the most flexible booking system as well with regards to canceled tickets and don't charge for all the extra stuff such as bags saving $50/trip for most folks.

Their product is always consistent, you know the plane and entertainment options, unlike the legacies which can range from a new 787 to a ratty CRJ with Mesa style plywood seats.

My wife actually can't stand their boarding procedure and will not book on them. She wants an assigned seat.

The thing that pisses me off about them however if they have convinced the government they are an underdog and deserve to just take over airports in prime locations that other airlines were forced to leave. And they have gotten additional slots at important hubs such as DC, NY, and LA by that fact.
 
nibake said:
Dude, you make a lot of assumptions there!
Ok, we have 1st year captains making >100k. Feel free to deny that as long as you want. Personally, I wouldn't define 1st year as "longer term." And it's not just us, I have talked to ATR captains <3 years at other companies who easily clear the 100k threshold.

Secondly, my schedule results in me being home at a decent time in the morning until late afternoon. I spend four nights a week in the some room of the same hotel where have enough time to work out, sit and the hot tub, read, and still have more than 8 hours of sleep. Sure, most of the schedules are crap, but mine isn't

Finally, and most importantly, you assume that I'm trying to put sunshine thoughts in my head. I'm really just trying to take an objective look at things down the road and consider whether I want to go for the "big" money when the time comes and whether the sacrifices of schedule and base will be worth it.
Click to expand...
Mind to name the airline? Cause the payscales of all the ATR/Shorts feeders are published and there's no way you can make 100k at any of them year 1.
 
When you guys are comparing fares in the neverending SWA vs. Other Airline deathmatch, are you comparing like for like in fare classes? If you compare full-fare, unrestricted, refundable tix, SWA will usually be cheaper than a legacy by a wide margin. On deeply discounted tickets? The legacy often wins.
 
trafficinsight said:
SWA's program was the only one I ever got something out of. We flew on all different airlines about evenly matched at my last job but any of them besides SWA the reward always seemed to be right over the next hill. With SWA I didn't pay for a personal flight for almost 3 years, and that's with never quite making it to A-list.
Click to expand...

To redeem Delta miles on that GEG-ATL flight, you'd need 19.5k, so 9.75 trips to generate a 'free' flight.

On SW, you'd need 12180 SW points, which would take 12.75 trips to earn.

Delta is the better rewards program.

(fwiw, 19.5k miles for a $203 trip is a horrible redemption value. Pay cash for that flight. Delta to Paris in Economy is 35k miles for a $600 ticket)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Remember, Southwest doesn't put their flights on places like Expedia. They've conned the average traveler into going straight to their web site, because that way the consumer can't compare their fares to the other airlines. It's brilliant marketing. I'll give them that.

As for loyalty programs, I'd argue that Southwest's is next to worthless, because it only gives you access to Southwest flights, which are still almost all domestic. You'll never be able to save up your miles and then use them for a trip to Paris, for example. On Delta, you've got access to 900 destinations, not only on Delta, but also on their partners. And miles can also be used to upgrade to first class, something that Southwest doesn't even offer.
Click to expand...

They haven't conned anyone. The fact they only sell tickets on their website is a true testament to just how loyal their customers are, regardless of how their loyalty program is. Everyone today buys Etickets online, and their first stop is always search engines for flights (expedia, priceline, orbitz, etc).

As for FC, does it really matter if the flight is under 2 hrs (which is a huge portion of SW's flying)? I think SWA is a great airline. They have done well financially, have a good strong domestic network, and a single-fleet model that's served them well.
 
Cptnchia said:
You or they are not including per Diem and 401K payments in those pay amounts, are you?
Click to expand...
Negative, captain.
ATN_Pilot said:
Probably including health insurance, overnight hotels, jumpseat benefits...
Click to expand...
Nope, it actually came from the part of the paystub that says pay summary > Gross > YTD

This does not include per diem, mileage, gas reimbursement, any form of insurance, hotels, or any other form of reimbursement, etc.
It does include bonuses, holiday pay, OT, incentive for working week off and such.

ian said:
You sure you don't work at skywest?
Click to expand...
:eek: I'm new to this 121 stuff, but I'm pretty sure SkyWest made it clear I would have to go on these things they called "trips" which precluded me from being home every day and having guaranteed weekends and holidays off ;)

z987k said:
Mind to name the airline? Cause the payscales of all the ATR/Shorts feeders are published and there's no way you can make 100k at any of them year 1.
Click to expand...
This is true of both Empire and Mountain Air. There are so many things that are actually pay (as detailed above) that add to what's published, its almost like we aren't marketing that well enough. I'm making about 175% of what is on the published payscale.

Let me put together a simple example:
$65,000 - salary
$20,000 - geographic bonus for living where the air hurts your face
$2,000 - holidays and such
$2,000 - overtime
$5,000 - bonus for occasionally staying the weekend instead of flying home
$3,500 - incentive to work weeks off during high demand periods
$7,500 - work 1/2 of your weeks off
$10,000 - extra pay for being required to travel to/from base on a weekend

$115,000 total

This is a realistic example, the actual theoretical max is probably another 25k. BTW people are making more than $100k without the geographic bonus. Such incredulity, man!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Remember, Southwest doesn't put their flights on places like Expedia. They've conned the average traveler into going straight to their web site, because that way the consumer can't compare their fares to the other airlines. It's brilliant marketing. I'll give them that.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the rationale on their part, but I know I've had a few managers buy me more expensive fares on Delta or American, because they were too busy to also check Southwest so I don't think they're trying to con anyone. Especially since you can find fares in a minute or two on flights.google.com.
 
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NickH said:
trafficinsight said:
SWA's program was the only one I ever got something out of. We flew on all different airlines about evenly matched at my last job but any of them besides SWA the reward always seemed to be right over the next hill. With SWA I didn't pay for a personal flight for almost 3 years, and that's with never quite making it to A-list.
Click to expand...
To redeem Delta miles on that GEG-ATL flight, you'd need 19.5k, so 9.75 trips to generate a 'free' flight. On SW, you'd need 12180 SW points, which would take 12.75 trips to earn. Delta is the better rewards program. (fwiw, 19.5k miles for a $203 trip is a horrible redemption value. Pay cash for that flight. Delta to Paris in Economy is 35k miles for a $600 ticket)
Click to expand...
Except what I was saying is that I never actually got to use Delta's program, or USAir's or United's or Alaska's or whatever, so I dunno, for whatever reason those programs didn't do much for me.

SWA also has point modifiers and a lot of the time since my company would book tickets last minute I got lots of points, and it probably helped that my personal flights were generally within California where my work flights were often coast to coast.

The programs I got the most out of were Southwest, IHG, and Hertz.

Honestly I'm glad it no longer matters much ;)

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
nibake said:
Negative, captain.

Nope, it actually came from the part of the paystub that says pay summary > Gross > YTD

This does not include per diem, mileage, gas reimbursement, any form of insurance, hotels, or any other form of reimbursement, etc.
It does include bonuses, holiday pay, OT, incentive for working week off and such.


:eek: I'm new to this 121 stuff, but I'm pretty sure SkyWest made it clear I would have to go on these things they called "trips" which precluded me from being home every day and having guaranteed weekends and holidays off ;)


This is true of both Empire and Mountain Air. There are so many things that are actually pay (as detailed above) that add to what's published, its almost like we aren't marketing that well enough. I'm making about 175% of what is on the published payscale.

Let me put together a simple example:
$65,000 - salary
$20,000 - geographic bonus for living where the air hurts your face
$2,000 - holidays and such
$2,000 - overtime
$5,000 - bonus for occasionally staying the weekend instead of flying home
$3,500 - incentive to work weeks off during high demand periods
$7,500 - work 1/2 of your weeks off
$10,000 - extra pay for being required to travel to/from base on a weekend

$115,000 total

This is a realistic example, the actual theoretical max is probably another 25k. BTW people are making more than $100k without the geographic bonus. Such incredulity, man!
Click to expand...

You’re doing one of the roamer positions. I just applied for the opening we have. I wasn’t aware we could make that much. I calculated somewhere south of 100k but not by much and I didn’t include per dium and a few other riders you included.

We also have a significant pay raise coming from FedEx for all the feeders. I’ve heard as much as 20k to all of the salary schedule. “If true” That would make starting salary 72k for our normal run of the mill pilot positions. That’s without any riders, extra pay or per dium.

I could spend the rest of my career at that pay level.
 
trafficinsight said:
Except what I was saying is that I never actually got to use Delta's program, or USAir's or United's or Alaska's or whatever, so I dunno, for whatever reason those programs didn't do much for me.

SWA also has point modifiers and a lot of the time since my company would book tickets last minute I got lots of points, and it probably helped that my personal flights were generally within California where my work flights were often coast to coast.

The programs I got the most out of were Southwest, IHG, and Hertz.

Honestly I'm glad it no longer matters much ;)

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You could have, if you'd have used them as much as SW. Distance is meaningless to SW, their program is 100% revenue based. You'd also have had a better earning rate per dollar with Hilton or Marriott, and you shouldn't use Hertz or a rental car rewards program either way.
 
NickH said:
I used to think that too, and then I doubled it. They say money can't buy happiness, but they are idiots.
Click to expand...

Dude, I was making 250k a year before bonuses at my last IT job. Trust me money can not buy you happiness. I’ve never been happier going to work than when I quit IT making a quarter of a million a year for a job doing flight instruction for $25 per flight hour in a piece of chit Robinson.

Money Does not buy happiness.
 
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