Four killed in BOW crash

[Inverted25]

I'm not sure it would even show up if it wasn't opened, I think they automatically cancel after 4 hours. I would guess they would have filed, I always do around here on similar flights. Normally just easier to do so around here.

I'd think an IFR Release on a filed flight plan would open it. No? I was an ATC'er pre-internet.

If you got the clearance with a void time that would set off alarms if you didn’t contact ATC with an reason you missed you void time. If you didn’t though and just took off with the plan to open in the air it would just expire. Now if you were in Canada they start search and rescue regardless if you file a flight plan and miss it

 

[dustoff17]

Misses the point still... While it's true that we don't know if he's dual rated or not, can we not agree that if he ISN'T, he has no business saying if the visibility for a fixed wing takeoff is appropriate or not? How would you know if you've never even performed that type of low vis takeoff yourself? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The following is well stated:

Agree the sheriff shouldn't be speculating causation to the media. But he wasn't the helo pilot, I believe..

The helo pilot, don't just automatically assume they don't know anything when it comes to common stuff, such as WX. Weather affects airplanes and helicopters, and their pilots, the same. Everything from physiological such as spatial disorientation effects, to aerodynamic such as icing. It's a common thing to aviation in general, not Category specific. So one can comment that "I probably wouldn't have been departing in those conditions," and they'd most likely be correct regardless of what they fly. Whether or not that was directly causal would come out later, sure.

All I'm saying is just be careful being too critical of someone when you yourself may not be aware of what it is they know when it comes to their IFR ops, and respective capabilities and limitations. Probably would've been better to just ask "hey, would a helo-only pilot be qualified to make X judgement?" And you would've learned something new.

 

[guywhoflies]

I saw news reports yesterday of "0.0 miles" and "300 feet" of visibility at BOW around the time of the accident. My wife and I were out driving in Tampa (40 miles W) around that time and it was definitely low vis. The really sad thing is the fog burned off by 8:30.

 

[hammerhat]

For the record, helicopter instrument flying and airplane instrument flying are the same, with a few exceptions: copter-specific approaches that exist, the ability to reduce published visibility on fixed-wing instrument approaches (unless NA), VDPs don't matter, and circling procedures don't pertain. Aside from that, they're the same.

And speed restrictions on GPS approaches.

But to be fair, of things routinely done by low time pilots I can't think of anything more dangerous than single pilot IMC departure in a piston twin.

 

[MikeD]

And speed restrictions on GPS approaches.

But to be fair, of things routinely done by low time pilots I can't think of anything more dangerous than single pilot IMC departure in a piston twin.

It can be done safely, but a number of factors go into that. Has the pilot done a lot of them......weekend warrior or 135 freight guy for example, what are the actual wx conditions being faced, what kind of contingencies are available if there is a problem on departure, how is the aircraft equipped, and what is the criticality of taking of right then.....ie-is it a flight that can wait or not. Lots of factors that can either increase risk, or mitigate it.

 

[gliderboy]

"But to be fair, of things routinely done by low time pilots I can't think of anything more dangerous than single pilot IMC departure in a piston twin."

This.

 

[Lawman]

I’d wonder how much the idea of not disappointing or breaking the plans weighed in the decision to go. Would he have made that same decision to go had it just been a flight and not the family Christmas trip to exotic local.

Along with that a plane full of family is hardly an easily managed cockpit environment.

 

[MikeD]

"But to be fair, of things routinely done by low time pilots I can't think of anything more dangerous than single pilot IMC departure in a piston twin."

This.

Agree, when described here in the quote with low time pilots. It can indeed be a handful to manage, both things in ones control as well as things outside ones control.

 

[GolfChuck]

I'd think an IFR Release on a filed flight plan would open it. No?

I was an ATC'er pre-internet.

If you got the clearance with a void time that would set off alarms if you didn’t contact ATC with an reason you missed you void time. If you didn’t though and just took off with the plan to open in the air it would just expire. Now if you were in Canada they start search and rescue regardless if you file a flight plan and miss it

So much speculation on this thread (not just these quoted posts). IFR flight plans are opened three ways. Either a controller enters a departure message into the FDIO (in case of nonradar), a controller starts a track on a target that already has a flight plan on file, or the computer automatically starts a track when the radar detects a recognized distinct beacon code. Issuing a clearance void time does not open a flight plan and there are no bells and whistles to let anyone know if the void time was not met. In fact, missing a clearance void time would not immediately trigger SAR until the pilot hasn't called back for another clearance within a certain amount of time "clearance void if not off by 1915z, if not off by 1915z contact [departure/clearance/fss] by 1925z and advise intentions." Nor does getting an IFR release activate an IFR flight plan. An airborne aircraft in contact with ATC (either by radar or radio) is what opens an IFR flight plan.