Save your pennies (aka what will you do after your job is automated)
- Thread starter wheelsup
- Start date
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Everything is done to save money. I guess I'm confused. The airlines aren't the ones developing the new engine, or new autopilot, or new airplanes. They buy them. And so far they've shown a willingness to pay for those advancements.
nibake
Powder hound
Wow. You must not be using your apple very hard. I see glitches on my iPad on a daily basis.
Hell, considering it's taken over a decade to determine how to retrofit the mad dogs for NextGen, we're going to be on Mars well before any pilotless commercial passenger airplanes. If you're actually fearful, @wheelsup, I'd suggest a less stressful industry.
Besides, worst case scenario, I've got a little less than (a max of) 20 years left, I should start shining my shoes for the retirement ticker tape parade anyway!
Besides, worst case scenario, I've got a little less than (a max of) 20 years left, I should start shining my shoes for the retirement ticker tape parade anyway!
I'd look at dirty videos but the wife is home.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It was only two years ago that some rail carriers were trying to get approval to remove one required position from the locomotive crew because new technology had made the position redundant. The DOT told them to pound sand because they didn’t buy that it would be at least as safe as continuing to have the human. And that standard, which is almost always the regulatory standard in the DOT and FAA, is why it will be many decades before this becomes an issue. Let’s remember, the FAA made Boeing jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to prove that the 737 didn’t need a flight engineer.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
Wha? I might be behind the curve on this, but the biz jets have synthetic vision and fancy things like xm lightning and nexrad overlay on the fancy moving map to supplement the "tactical" radar and IR view runway lights projection on the HUD
Last I checked airlines only order stuff they deem will aid running leaner, meaner and on time, not because it's cool and new so let's get it
PS I sort of made peace with CRT tubes and no VNAV on the vast majority of the regional airliners that are in my possible future
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
How is reducing required crew not "running leaner, meaner, and in time"?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
That's interesting, I had no idea about the DOT saying no to reducing crew.
However it does show where the US is lagging. Look at what Uber did. Taxis had a stranglehold on most US markets and a new technology came and completely upended it.
Most of us have jobs merely due to government regulation requiring it.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Fearful? Nah. It's coming and there is nothing I can do about it.Hell, considering it's taken over a decade to determine how to retrofit the mad dogs for NextGen, we're going to be on Mars well before any pilotless commercial passenger airplanes. If you're actually fearful, @wheelsup, I'd suggest a less stressful industry.
Besides, worst case scenario, I've got a little less than (a max of) 20 years left, I should start shining my shoes for the retirement ticker tape parade anyway!
We may even see more disruption from those Elon Musk tube suckers than pilotless aircraft. Who knows.
It's actually quite interesting what lies ahead. If history is any guide, it probably won't be as interesting as what is predicted
.
Soku39
Well-Known Member
Fearful? Nah. It's coming and there is nothing I can do about it.
We may even see more disruption from those Elon Musk tube suckers than pilotless aircraft. Who knows.
It's actually quite interesting what lies ahead. If history is any guide, it probably won't be as interesting as what is predicted
I think self driving whatevers will destory a lot of regional routes East of the Mississippi where distance and terrain aren't such an issue.
As i understand it, it was ALPA pushing for the 3 man crew for the 737, even after the FAA certified it for 2 man flightcrew just before it ever went into production. In the '60s and '70s, 3 man crew was very standard for airliners, making ALPAs positiom understandable, but I had thought the FAA had removed weight restrictions for aircraft with 2 man flightcrews by the time the 737 began production.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Not quite. The 737 was basically the test case for a two man crew on a plane over 80,000 lbs. The FAA was highly skeptical of the idea and didn’t make things easy for Boeing. The testing they had to go through was significant. It wasn’t until after all of that when the ALPA internal food fight over crew compliment got going.
Bob Ridpath
Pit Bull love
I am of an age where I can say with absolute confidence that I will NEVER ride in a driverless car, a train without an engineer, nor an airplane without a pilot.
I will not be passive in a car should the road call, nor trust the vageries of software which fails daily at the level of simple phone calls to 911, and can be hacked or compromised on a consistent basis.
To believe that errors and hackers won’t be prolific and effective (as they are now), is a belief as naive as embracing a flat earth upon which unicorns roam freely.
I may be the last old man driving too slowly in the wrong lane or way, but it will be me and a few other people who remember the feel of a steering wheel and stick shift that the damned software will have to acknowledge.
I will not be passive in a car should the road call, nor trust the vageries of software which fails daily at the level of simple phone calls to 911, and can be hacked or compromised on a consistent basis.
To believe that errors and hackers won’t be prolific and effective (as they are now), is a belief as naive as embracing a flat earth upon which unicorns roam freely.
I may be the last old man driving too slowly in the wrong lane or way, but it will be me and a few other people who remember the feel of a steering wheel and stick shift that the damned software will have to acknowledge.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I mostly use it to take selfies
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Eh, I think driverless cars will be one of the greatest lifesavers in human history. People are just awful drivers. Sometimes we need to accept that machines can do it better.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
"In 1967 the airworthiness certificate for the two man B-737 was acquired. In the following year, evaluation tests were conducted on a wide scale to determine whether to implement the two man crew complement with which the airworthiness certificate was acquired or to use the three man crew configuration as advocated by airline flight crew.
The Federal Arbitration Commission assessed that it was possible to fly with two men but that implementation of the three man cockpit would contribute to safety in the early stages of introduction. United Airlines therefore started operation of the B-737 in 1970 with three men.
This fact greatly influenced Western Airlines and others; with Western, Wein and Frontier making the decision to ny this aircraft with three men.
In 1971, the crew complement issue of the B-737 was discussed at Aloha Airlines.
The Federal Arbitration Commission officer who dealt with the arguments between Aloha and US ALPA assessed that it was possible to operate the aircraft in Hawaii with two men due to the traffic volume and weather conditions there. He nevertheless supported the three crew configuration for B-737 operation in places in the United States other than Hawaii.
In 1973, US ALPA confronted the management of Wein Airlines, which was trying to replace the three man crew of the B-737 with two men. The Federal Arbitration officer at that time judged and approved the implementing of the three man crew complement. The examples of United and Aloha were referred to, concluding that the flight conditions were most similar to that of United.
In 1976, pilots at Frontier Airlines, after conducting three man operation of the B-737 for six years, accepted the two man crew complement proposal of management. Wein airmen went on strike when the company management tried to forcibly implement the two man crew on their B-737.
In answer to the continued strike on the crew complement issue of the B-737, in 1979 the President's Energy Commission set up by President Carter, instructed Wein to operate their B-737 with two crew members. The pilots at Wein were made to accept this leaving United as the only airline operating the B-737 with three men.
Airmen in the United States have consistently fought the crew complement problem in the 1970s within the social environment dominated by the petroleum crisis and deregulation. Arguments regarding the two man crew complement further intensified during the acquisition of the airworthiness certification of the DC-9-80 and at the announcement that the B-757 and B-767 were being developed with a two man crew."
http://www.jalcrew.jp/jfu/english/b747-400/3man03.htm
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Hang on a second. The only job that Uber "technology" upended was dispatchers. Fundamentally Uber is just a taxi company with better marketing. At the end of the day you're still paying someone to drive you from point A to B. But instead of calling someone on the phone to schedule a pickup you have a app on your phone.
Uber is just a taxi, with a slightly hipper rap. And none of the safety and government oversight. But it's cool to hire a "Uber" than it is to hire a taxi. All it did was put tons of taxi drivers and taxi dispatchers out of work.
And the idiots stupid enough to drive for Uber obviously have no understanding of basic economics. No one, except Uber, is making money at it.
Marketing and technology are two very different things and often times dynamically opposed. Uber is the pet rock of this decade.
Now if Uber ever actually gets self driving cars working then your analogy makes sense. But right now all they are is a better marketing team than yellow cab.