C402 runs out of fuel over St. Petersburg

ATN_Pilot said:
Ahhh, my dream airplane. I want that even more than I want a light jet. From Atlanta to Vegas non-stop, even in a headwind, something no single pilot jet can accomplish. Someday. :)
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I have yet to find a single pilot jet that can even come close to economically replacing my Garrett powered TP. It’s an absolute travesty that Textron basically owns that market segment.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Exactly. This is a widespread problem for a reason. And the FBO industry doesn't seem too concerned with correcting it.
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It seems like a no-brain business decision to error-proof a process that I intend to put in the hands of unskilled labor. With that said, I patronize a few FBOs in (what shouldn't be) two different ways. When I'm in my peasant airplane and they don't recognize me I'm treated as either a nitwit or a pariah. When I show up as a zipper suited sun God they give me literally everything. Can you really call it an industry when there are really only 3 players and the other 90% are mom and pop joints? Oh wait.....
 
milleR said:
After a decade running PT-6’s and PW123/150’s I am sold lock, stock and barrel on the TPE-331. It’s the best thing ever.
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They are cool engines. Great to fly behind and not anywhere near the maintenance bogeyman they’re made out to be.
 
Flyinthrew said:
It seems like a no-brain business decision to error-proof a process that I intend to put in the hands of unskilled labor. With that said, I patronize a few FBOs in (what shouldn't be) two different ways. When I'm in my peasant airplane and they don't recognize me I'm treated as either a nitwit or a pariah. When I show up as a zipper suited sun God they give me literally everything. Can you really call it an industry when there are really only 3 players and the other 90% are mom and pop joints? Oh wait.....
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True story.
 
Roger Roger said:
They are cool engines. Great to fly behind and not anywhere near the maintenance bogeyman they’re made out to be.
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What is wrong with the PT-6? Granted I only flew with them for a year but never had an issue. The turbine was mostly an all metal disc with small blades and looked indestructible.
 
Springer said:
What is wrong with the PT-6? Granted I only flew with them for a year but never had an issue. The turbine was mostly an all metal disc with small blades and looked indestructible.
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In the big picture, it’s mostly a Ford/Chevy argument. But, the PT6 with the free power turbine and extra flow reversal is inherently less efficient than the Garrett, and always will be. From a pilot perspective, there’s the lack of responsiveness. It’s analogous to going from a manual transmission vehicle to an automatic with a bad slip.

Oh, and WTF is with marking torque gauges in PSI? 0-100% is perfect.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Exactly. This is a widespread problem for a reason. And the FBO industry doesn't seem too concerned with correcting it.
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Ugh. My old company had 80 gallons of LL put in a Caravan and didn’t know until the next AM after the plane had flown home. The FBO called after they noticed the discrepancy on the receipt. Pilot was obviously not paying attention. Had that been the opposite in our Chieftain we’d have been fishing dead bodies out of Sitka Sound.
 
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Springer said:
What is wrong with the PT-6? Granted I only flew with them for a year but never had an issue. The turbine was mostly an all metal disc with small blades and looked indestructible.
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PT-6s are amazing engines. Practically indestructible. But nowhere near as efficient. Hence the 441 going over 2k miles while the 425 will struggle to make 1k.
 
milleR said:
To be fair, they’re identical. But there’s like, what, 50 C425’s flying around the country?
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ATN_Pilot said:
They're not exactly identical. Cabin is a bit different. But the biggest difference is, you know, the the turbine engines that any decent fueler should be able to recognize. If you don't have big exhaust stacks coming out the sides, it's not a PT-6.
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atpduck said:
The most notable difference between a 421 and 425 is the horizontal stabilizer. The 421’s is straight, the 425’s horizontal stab has a slight upward “v” shape.
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I'd say the most notable difference is the nose...421 = Pointy...425 = Rounded...and it's more than subtle.

@ATN_Pilot , be sure to talk to Jimmy Garland up at KCNI (S&S Aviation) if you have an issue you can't "put your finger on"...he's a wizard at the Twin Cessna's, and a honest/good guy in the aviation world.
 
Roger Roger said:
Ugh. My old company had 80 gallons of LL put in a Caravan and didn’t know until the next AM after the plane had flown home. The FBO called after they noticed the discrepancy on the receipt. Pilot was obviously not paying attention. Had that been the opposite in our Chieftain we’d have been fishing dead bodies out of Sitka Sound.
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Flies poorly for an hour on Avgas, then gets rebuilt?
 
So serious question: why does the overhaul interval go so quickly down with 100LL usage? Are they worried about lead deposition in the turbine section?
 
gotWXdagain said:
So serious question: why does the overhaul interval go so quickly down with 100LL usage? Are they worried about lead deposition in the turbine section?
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I think that’s it. At least that’s what I remember from school. The other thing the Honeywell rep told me when this happened is that spinny bits in the FCU (FCU drive splines, HP fuel pump) are fuel lubricated with the lubricity of Jet A in mind, which is significantly higher than avgas. In fact that’s one of the inspections called out by Honeywell if the 250/100 or 7000/3000 limit is exceeded is to pull the FCU and check the drive splines.
 
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