Which glass panel is easier to learn first??

[Roger Roger]

It's a fine panel, just takes a while to learn.

And there's stupid stuff- like in a 480 or FMS if you program an airway it populates all the waypoints in between your entry and exit. Not so with the Chelton (mine at least, maybe it's just too old). So when you get "proceed direct to SOBAD" it's time to get out the chart (thank you ForeFlight, I love you) find SOBAD, twist SOBAD into ACTV select it and hit direct to- at which point there's a 50/50 chance the gps takes the plane in the opposite direction until you hit direct to, enter, again.

Or inputing an approach. As soon as you select it, all the waypoints get populated and your flight plan is completely jacked up. So if your last flight plan fix is 30 or 40 miles from the field, you can't actually enter the approach until given a heading or direct to an approach fix because it removes the airport as a waypoint. All this means is that at the last minute you're now doing a bunch of stuff while low, fast, and by yourself (select the airport out of ACTV, select IFR approach, select the runway, select a fix or VTF, activate it).

End of days stuff? No. Really, really annoying while flying single pilot IFR around New York airspace at 250 kts? You betcha. But hey, it's a DOS based system.

Heh. The wrong-way turn on a direct to is a fun one.

The airway thing isn’t really something that came up at the old job, so I never really noticed it.

Not sure about the loading approach issue?

So some of the route management stuff can be funky, but it does some really useful things that this shiny latest greatest Honeywell Apex I’m learning still doesn’t do. The thing I miss most is the skyway boxes-this thing has synthetic vision and a flight path symbol, but without skyways it’s really only useful doing steep turns and on a straight-in IFR approach. The skyways make hand flying (or monitoring a circa 1982 autopilot) in any phase of flight a breeze. The other thing is the VFR approach button...why in TYOOL 2017 I have to do some crazy button mashing that still only draws the approach to the center of the airport instead of the threshold....

 

[learhawkerbe400]

GNS480/CNX80 FTW!

You masochist. I couldn’t figure out how to make that damn thing go direct. They’re way more capable than a 430/530 but i wanted to throw it out the window bc it was so unintuitive at first.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You masochist. I couldn’t figure out how to make that damn thing go direct. They’re way more capable than a 430/530 but i wanted to throw it out the window bc it was so unintuitive at first.

You're right, you do need to learn it, but after you do, it's so far superior to the 430/530 that it's not even in the same league. It's really a full FMS just without the keypad. I absolutely love mine and have no plans to upgrade as long as I can still get database updates for it.

 

[milleR]

Heh. The wrong-way turn on a direct to is a fun one.

Boy am I glad that isn't just mine lol.

Not sure about the loading approach issue?

If you ever get back behind one, try going direct the field after you load an approach .... you can't. Annoying.

So some of the route management stuff can be funky, but it does some really useful things that this shiny latest greatest Honeywell Apex I’m learning still doesn’t do. The thing I miss most is the skyway boxes-this thing has synthetic vision and a flight path symbol, but without skyways it’s really only useful doing steep turns and on a straight-in IFR approach. The skyways make hand flying (or monitoring a circa 1982 autopilot) in any phase of flight a breeze. The other thing is the VFR approach button...why in TYOOL 2017 I have to do some crazy button mashing that still only draws the approach to the center of the airport instead of the threshold....

The boxes are awesome, especially on RNAV approaches. I honestly haven't used the VFR approach function, I just use OBS to draw a final through the field. But yeah, it's been almost a decade but I remember the Primus suite in the NG was a challenge after the 530/430 stack in our /45. We didn't have the hand support thingy I guess they put in later which made turbulence even more fun.

 

[milleR]

You're right, you do need to learn it, but after you do, it's so far superior to the 430/530 that it's not even in the same league. It's really a full FMS just without the keypad. I absolutely love mine and have no plans to upgrade as long as I can still get database updates for it.

I had dual 480's with an MX20 in my P210 and it was hands down the best GA stack imo. Couple that with a G600 and it would be my dream panel.

 

[Roger Roger]

If you ever get back behind one, try going direct the field after you load an approach .... you can't. Annoying.

sure you can...do it all the time when we break out and cancel early. It’s a little button mashing, but bring up the heading bug so the AP doesn’t chase the LNAV everywhere while you reprogram. Select any waypoint on the approach and delete it, that deletes the whole approach. Then select the airport and direct to, then back to LNAV.

 

[milleR]

sure you can...do it all the time when we break out and cancel early. It’s a little button mashing, but bring up the heading bug so the AP doesn’t chase the LNAV everywhere while you reprogram. Select any waypoint on the approach and delete it, that deletes the whole approach. Then select the airport and direct to.

True, good point. I was thinking more along the lines of when I get "proceed direct the field, expect vectors for the yada yada runway 16" which happens to me a lot.

 

[Roger Roger]

True, good point. I was thinking more along the lines of when I get "proceed direct the field, expect vectors for the yada yada runway 16" which happens to me a lot.

Vectors? What are those? #nonradarproblems

 

[Richman]

You masochist. I couldn’t figure out how to make that damn thing go direct. They’re way more capable than a 430/530 but i wanted to throw it out the window bc it was so unintuitive at first.

Lolz, the direct button too complicated?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I had dual 480's with an MX20 in my P210 and it was hands down the best GA stack imo. Couple that with a G600 and it would be my dream panel.

I've got the MX20 also. Only downside with that now is that it doesn't interface with the new ADS-B inputs. I have TCAD on it, but I can't put ADS-B traffic or weather on it. Otherwise, still a great display.

 

[milleR]

I've got the MX20 also. Only downside with that now is that it doesn't interface with the new ADS-B inputs. I have TCAD on it, but I can't put ADS-B traffic or weather on it. Otherwise, still a great display.

That's good to know. I'm going to install ADS-B in March when my plane goes in for 3 year inspections so I'll have to keep that in mind.

 

[Richman]

I've got the MX20 also. Only downside with that now is that it doesn't interface with the new ADS-B inputs. I have TCAD on it, but I can't put ADS-B traffic or weather on it. Otherwise, still a great display.

I've got an MX20 as well. It's slow, but usable, and excellent for displaying WX or SS data....but...

I've got a AV-300 WSI WX receiver. It only works with the MX20 or Avidyne displays. It will work with a GMX200, but only with the $3500 unlock card from Garmin.

IBM bought WSI, and then promptly announced they were shutting down WSIs consumer weather system. This bricks my receiver at the end of the year. WSI was vastly superior to the older XM weather feed, and the customer service was far better as well.

I hear the new S/XM WX feed is better than the old XM feed, but I guess we'll see. I'll need a new receiver if I decide to go that way.

FWIW, an MX20 will display ADSB data if your receiver is capable of outputting the data in the GDL90 format, which some can.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I've got an MX20 as well. It's slow, but usable, and excellent for displaying WX or SS data....but...

I've got a AV-300 WSI WX receiver. It only works with the MX20 or Avidyne displays. It will work with a GMX200, but only with the $3500 unlock card from Garmin.

IBM bought WSI, and then promptly announced they were shutting down WSIs consumer weather system. This bricks my receiver at the end of the year. WSI was vastly superior to the older XM weather feed, and the customer service was far better as well.

I hear the new S/XM WX feed is better than the old XM feed, but I guess we'll see. I'll need a new receiver if I decide to go that way.

FWIW, an MX20 will display ADSB data if your receiver is capable of outputting the data in the GDL90 format, which some can.

Do you find XM weather data worth it? I've been pretty happy with ADS-B uplink and my old three color airborne radar, but maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.

 

[Roger Roger]

Do you find XM weather data worth it? I've been pretty happy with ADS-B uplink and my old three color airborne radar, but maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.

I haven’t used both together, but I’ve always found the ADSB link weather to be more than sufficient. My understanding is that due to bandwidth limitations on 978 you may not be able to get wx for airports a long ways away-the ground stations only send weather from within a certain radius. Never been an issue on the routes I’ve done but I would imagine in the golden eagle you’re not doing a lot of sub-100 NM hops like I was at the last job.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Interesting. So far it hasn't been a problem for me. Even flying out to Vegas last year, I was able to get Vegas weather shortly after taking off from SFB. My average trip is only about 350 miles, though, so maybe I just haven't had enough of those long trips to run into problems yet.

 

[Roger Roger]

Interesting. So far it hasn't been a problem for me. Even flying out to Vegas last year, I was able to get Vegas weather shortly after taking off from SFB. My average trip is only about 350 miles, though, so maybe I just haven't had enough of those long trips to run into problems yet.

According to Foreflight’s FAQ, the range on the ADS-B weather is 250-500 NM for stuff like METAR, TAF, and NOTAM, and twice that for winds aloft.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

According to Foreflight’s FAQ, the range on the ADS-B weather is 250-500 NM for stuff like METAR, TAF, and NOTAM, and twice that for winds aloft.

And XM is not range limited at all?

 

[Roger Roger]

And XM is not range limited at all?

To my understanding no it is not.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Thanks! Something to consider for an upgrade.

 

[nimslow]

For someone who remembers the days before LORAN, let alone GPS... I always chuckle when I see that any GPS is “prehistoric”.

Amen to that. I remember when RNAV meant something like the KNS-80. And it was super high tech.

We had KLN90s in the SAAB. Those were prehistoric.

Our SAAB's were strictly VOR, but they had that neat "radial in and out" display on the ND you could spin around with the knob on the center console.

View attachment 40934
Can't see it but there is a KLN900 down there! And a couple of levers that you jet guys aren't sure what to do with.

I'll see your ATR, and raise you the mighty shorts 360, where my adventure began way back when. I could fly a mean arc/full approach/NDB approach raw data back then. (Not bagging on the ATR, I've got around 5K hours in it, between both seats, one of my favorite airplanes that I've flown).