Alpa endorsed hour reduction plan.

The Air Line Pilots Association and the Airline Dispatchers Federation have expressed opposition to this recommendation.


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I hope it doesn’t happen, cause those regional salary upgrades are nice for us guys entering the game now


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Its shocking that the central issue is having or not having a degree. As if showing that you sat in a classroom for 4 or 2 years learning culinary skills somehow makes you a better pilot? I did this and I was no better a pilot for my college experience than my local McDonalds burger flipper (and my education was aerospace focused). It wasn't until I actually spent time in the airspace system that I truly began to learn. Haven't we seen too many examples of late that people with masters and doctorates are no better at making decisions than the local meter maid. The difference being the meter maid doesn't have over 100K in debt and has a marketable skill.
 
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Doesn't Congress have to pass it? If they do does anyone know what support for this kind of bill would be like?
 
Inverted said:
Are we really to believe that there are tens of thousands of 600TT pilots that will suddenly cure the industry's shortage of pilots willing to work for peanuts?
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https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/

The 2016 spreadsheet from this page claims there are about 157,000 ATP holders and roughly 96,000 commercial certificate holders. Now I'm not sure how many of these commercial pilots are at 500TT or would be interested in the regionals, but 96,000 is more pilots that all of the airlines employ, so it would flood the job market with cheap pilots to a certain extent. It would probably be enough to get regional airline compensation back down to pre-2015 levels. Also it would probably encourage more people to start flight training knowing they could potentially go to the airlines with only 500TT instead of waiting until 1,500. Now the college degree requirement may reduce the number of eligible pilots somewhat-the article didn't say if any bachelors or associates degree will do, or if it has to be an approved aviation degree from an approved institution as is currently the case for the Restricted ATP with reduced total time.
 
Wardogg said:
Wait. Four paragraphs in says ALPA endorsed it. Last sentence.
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It looks like ALPA endorsed a plan described in the fourth paragraph, which would essentially reduce the total times needed for a Restricted ATP with a bachelors or associates degree or military aviation background by another 250 hours. However ALPA opposes a "more aggressive" plan described in paragraphs 5-6 that would reduce the total time required for a Restricted ATP under those three cases to only 500 hours.
 
jskibo said:
.......and there goes the regional pay increases
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Maybe, possibly. But not totally sure. People jumped out of the field, because of the low pay. Causing the "shortage", and eventually the increase in pay. If pay drops, once again, I'd expect people to say pass. Regionals are paying a livable income, which is attracting a lot of career changers to the field, who always wanted to fly 121. But were like nope, nope. Until recently. I believe that if this is made law, it would help out the regionals in the short term. But in the long term, it would hurt them, if salaries fell again, because people would flee, and new entrants would again slow to a trickle. Who wants to pay $75-100k for a $19 or 30k starting salary in 2017?

Lastly, those entering the industry, with no military experience or degree, they still have to have 1500 hrs? Article didn't say.
 
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You guys are missing the other big effect.

Lowering starting airline pay will serve as less incentive and take pressure off the military while they run critically short of aviators. The generals have gone before congress begging them to do something to make it less attractive to ditch the service.


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Yakob said:
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/

The 2016 spreadsheet from this page claims there are about 157,000 ATP holders and roughly 96,000 commercial certificate holders. Now I'm not sure how many of these commercial pilots are at 500TT or would be interested in the regionals, but 96,000 is more pilots that all of the airlines employ, so it would flood the job market with cheap pilots to a certain extent. It would probably be enough to get regional airline compensation back down to pre-2015 levels. Also it would probably encourage more people to start flight training knowing they could potentially go to the airlines with only 500TT instead of waiting until 1,500. Now the college degree requirement may reduce the number of eligible pilots somewhat-the article didn't say if any bachelors or associates degree will do, or if it has to be an approved aviation degree from an approved institution as is currently the case for the Restricted ATP with reduced total time.
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157,000 ATPs. How many of them are below age 65? How many are older than 65? How many of those are dead? How many are already employed happily at an airline, at a 135 job, at a part 91 job etc? How many of those ATPs lost their medical? How many of those ATPs have multiple DUIs or felonies?

I don't buy that because the FAA database says we have 157,000 ATPs, that 90k of those are waiting for mins to be lowered, it doesn't add up or make common sense.

That number is fantastic for arguing that there is no pilot shortage, until you start adding disqualifying criteria...
 
Yakob said:
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/

The 2016 spreadsheet from this page claims there are about 157,000 ATP holders and roughly 96,000 commercial certificate holders. Now I'm not sure how many of these commercial pilots are at 500TT or would be interested in the regionals, but 96,000 is more pilots that all of the airlines employ, so it would flood the job market with cheap pilots to a certain extent. It would probably be enough to get regional airline compensation back down to pre-2015 levels. Also it would probably encourage more people to start flight training knowing they could potentially go to the airlines with only 500TT instead of waiting until 1,500. Now the college degree requirement may reduce the number of eligible pilots somewhat-the article didn't say if any bachelors or associates degree will do, or if it has to be an approved aviation degree from an approved institution as is currently the case for the Restricted ATP with reduced total time.
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If the regionals wages are to reverse and return to sub 25k, I'm sure many people will leave the career as well. I love this job, but not enough to continue doing it knowing I can't afford to go to work. Things will get very interesting if this becomes the outcome..
 
JDean3204 said:
If the regionals wages are to reverse and return to sub 25k, I'm sure many people will leave the career as well. I love this job, but not enough to continue doing it knowing I can't afford to go to work. Things will get very interesting if this becomes the outcome..
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Endeavor better vote yes, at the end of this month and lock in that rate!
 
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