ATP Time building ?

USMCmech

USMCmech

Well-Known Member
A couple of weekends ago I went to a place that trains and flys gliders. Me and a couple of guys were talking and this question came up.


Can you count glider time toward your 1500tt for the ATP?


I know no employer would take it seriously, but I think it would be legit acording to pt 61. (not safe or smart, but legale)

It says 1500 TT with 500 Xcountry, ect.

Time in other catagory and classes of aircraft (helicopters) count toward the total time requirement.

Xcountry is defined as any flight more than 50 NM distant (landings not required).

The glider pilots I talked to said that 50 NM Xcountry and return is feasable on a good day without landing.


I know it's crazy
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, but I think it may be legale.
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Why not? I have a few glider hours and I included that in my times when I did my ATP paperwork. The examiner browsed thru all my logs, too, and I think we might have even talked about gliders for a minute. Never raised an eyebrow.
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Sure. Total time is just that - total time. Although an employer would have you break up your hours to focus on what they were interested in, e.g out of your 2000 hrs TT 1620 was in airplanes, the balance in gliders. And of course from that 1620, x was multi time etc. So yes, it is part of your total aeronautical experience and should be counted.
 
That's what I thought, but a couple of the guys were dubious. One guy had 1500+ glider hours but no powered time. He couldn't belive it when I told him.
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Since he already had his comercial glider, he could skip private entirely and go directly to single engine land, multi instrument. Then imeadiatly take his ATP.
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Kinda redefines "cheap time builder" dosen't it.
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I'm looking foward to getting my glider liscense. I have always wanted to develop the skill required to soar.
 
Gliding is fun - you'll enjoy it. I got my rating in 2001. With only 25 hours of solo time you can go for the commercial glider certificate and maybe fly for the outfit you're getting your rating at. Another possibility is to fly the tow plane for them on the weekends. It is also a great networking oppurtunity as well as teaching you what my CFIG called "elemental" flying.
 
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That's what I thought, but a couple of the guys were dubious. One guy had 1500+ glider hours but no powered time. He couldn't belive it when I told him.
shocked.gif


Since he already had his comercial glider, he could skip private entirely and go directly to single engine land, multi instrument. Then imeadiatly take his ATP.
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not quite..

if he were to want a commercial airplane added onto his certificate he needs 250tt, which he has, but of that he needs at least 100 hrs powered time, of which 50 is in airplanes, and more importantly 100 hrs PIC of which 50 must be in airplanes and 10 must be in airplanes and XC.

With the PIC airplane requirement, he either needs a private airplane or someone to sign him off for solo privledges in airplanes for all the solo/PIC requirements.

If he wants the ATP airplane, hes going to need at least 250 airplane PIC, of which 100 is XC. The requirements are more than just Total time.
 
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I know no employer would take it seriously, but I think it would be legit acording to pt 61. (not safe or smart, but legale)



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I don't get the safe/smart comment. I got some glider time and a commercial rating after I had most of my power ratings. I've often thought, since then, how valuable glider time is for any pilot. When you get released it's all about your good judgment and ability, there is no throttle to push to correct your mistakes. Just think how much better powered pilots would be at engine out landings once they had made dozens of actual ones.

Also gliders teach control coordination better than anything.

Glider time is good time.
 
What I want to know is because of the new sport pilot rule can you stick a N number on an ultralight and log that as total time (in the fixed wing powered aircraft catagory)? Now that would be some cheap time building.

Ethan
 
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What I want to know is because of the new sport pilot rule can you stick a N number on an ultralight and log that as total time (in the fixed wing powered aircraft catagory)? Now that would be some cheap time building.

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I belive so.

Many people fly small cheap homebuilts to build time.

If it has a prop and a N# you can log it as single engine land.

I've seen a kit for a single person multi engine airplane which uses two 15hp single cylinder engines turning 24 inch props.

Now that's some cheap multi time.
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I didn't mean to imply that glider time isn't valuable. In fact I don't think there is anything better to teach basic stick and rudder skills.

But the ATP liscense is far more than stick and rudder. Instrument skills, multi engine ops, systems, weather, regs, ect.

A pilot who has nothing more than the minimum hours in powered airplanes would be in way over his head.

That's what I ment by "not safe or smart, but leagle"
 
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What I want to know is because of the new sport pilot rule can you stick a N number on an ultralight and log that as total time (in the fixed wing powered aircraft catagory)? Now that would be some cheap time building.

Ethan

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you could do this before the sport pilot stuff, and the new rules dont effect how you would go about doing this, afaik. You'd license your ultralight somewhere in the experimental category (hopefully into the amature built class, as its less restrictive than some of the others). You'd have to go through the same steps kit builders go through to get thier aircraft certified experimental/amature-built. Once you've got an airworthyness certificate, you no longer have an ultralight, but an airplane. Dont forget to get a repairman certificate for that airplane either, so you can do all the service on it (a feature of the amature-built class) instead of having to take it to an A&P for repairs.

why dont you see this very often? you dont need any certificate to fly an ultralight, but throw an N number on it and get an airworthyness certificate, and now you need a certificate to fly it.
 
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Xcountry is defined as any flight more than 50 NM distant (landings not required).

The glider pilots I talked to said that 50 NM Xcountry and return is feasable on a good day without landing.

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I'm surprised no one has corrected this part. X-country time means, "for the purposed of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements...time acquired during a flight...(B)That includes a POINT OF LANDING that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure..."

FAR 61.1 (b)(3)

But, as mentioned, it's valid for total time, but useless for cross-country unless you land somewhere 50NM away from your original POD.
 
I don't have a FAR to cite offhand, but I believe that the ATP is the only rating for which XC flights don't need to involve a landing at the destination. Also, the 50 nm rule doesn't apply to flights used to meet Pt 135 PIC requirements; a flight to the airport on the other side of town is an XC for that purpose.
 
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I don't have a FAR to cite offhand, but I believe that the ATP is the only rating for which XC flights don't need to involve a landing at the destination. Also, the 50 nm rule doesn't apply to flights used to meet Pt 135 PIC requirements; a flight to the airport on the other side of town is an XC for that purpose.

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X-country flights for the ATP don't have to include landings at a destination.

This exception was put in place for all the patrol pilot's that fly long distances, but return to their take off point.

This is what I was taught durring my CFI training, but now I can't find the FAR refrence.
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Can anybody find it?
 
USMCmech said:
I know no employer would take it seriously, but I think it would be legit acording to pt 61. (not safe or smart, but legale)
Click to expand...

If there was a chunk of quality fixed wing time I'm pretty sure you'd be taken seriously. How about 1000 hours in gliders, 500 fixed PIC. Of the 500, 300 PIC in a light single and 200 PIC in a twin or turbine. That looks like a strong resume to me.
 
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