Recruiter BS?

Wardogg

Wardogg

Meat Popsicle
I pulled this chart off of the Envoy website.

IMG_Pilot_Pay_Chart-091416.png


Can anyone vouch for any actual realities on this chart, or is it just recruiter bovine excrement?

Whats the jump in pay at year 17 before you upgrade to 777 Cap? Whos flying the FOs spot on the 777 if you go from 737 Cap to 777 Cap?
 
I don't think the jump in pay is before the upgrade, the dots are just getting connected by an awful line.
I'm really starting to despise these recruiting ploys at the regionals.
$75,000 FIRST YEAR TOTAL COMPENSATION* **
*Flying 80hr mo, 401k, 5k CTP, 10k untaxed signing bonus, health insurance, parking, uniforms, ipad, luggage discount
**Includes toilet paper on concourse level restrooms, 1 keurig pod per bid period, printer paper for releases, 1 stroopwaffel per pairing
 
Wardogg said:
Can anyone vouch for any actual realities on this chart, or is it just recruiter bovine excrement?

Whats the jump in pay at year 17 before you upgrade to 777 Cap? Whos flying the FOs spot on the 777 if you go from 737 Cap to 777 Cap?
Click to expand...

Seems reasonable. I'm a few years behind that chart, mostly because of the Age 65 "pause".

Like was said, the jump at 17 is just a sloppy way of showing the move from 737 to 777.

The people that will fill the 777 right seat (and IRO seat) are the ones who want some level of quality of life. Or get juniored in to it.
 
That's funny snizzle right there. I would be at 28 years on the AA list and barely hold narrowbody captain. Widebody captain would be around 8 more years away for 36 total.

The thing about charts like those is they are valid for 1 guy hired on a specific date. Once you start piling numbers on top of that guy the timeframe starts getting further out.

For instance, a pilot hired at Piedmont (the original one) in 1978 would upgrade in 3 years. One hired in 1984 to early 85 was still at a pretty good 5 years but anyone hired 86/87 bounced on that line of senior F.O./Junior Captain for over 20 years.

Never believe a chart like that. You must do the math for yourself based on your projected hire date and the project attrition for all of those in front of you.
 
bimmerphile said:
I don't think the jump in pay is before the upgrade, the dots are just getting connected by an awful line.
I'm really starting to despise these recruiting ploys at the regionals.
$75,000 FIRST YEAR TOTAL COMPENSATION* **
*Flying 80hr mo, 401k, 5k CTP, 10k untaxed signing bonus, health insurance, parking, uniforms, ipad, luggage discount
**Includes toilet paper on concourse level restrooms, 1 keurig pod per bid period, printer paper for releases, 1 stroopwaffel per pairing
Click to expand...

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Envoy doesn’t advertise like that.

$22.1k sign on bonus unless you’re in the 175, then it’s $17.1k. First year pay is about $40/hr, so that’s $36K/yr base on reserve not including the bonus.

Second year you get a $2.5k bonus every quarter. That’s where they get the ~$60k first year and slight drop to ~$50k second year. None of these include perdiem, OT, holding a line about 75 hour guarantee etc, much less 401k contribution and whatnot.



typhoonpilot said:
That's funny snizzle right there. I would be at 28 years on the AA list and barely hold narrowbody captain. Widebody captain would be around 8 more years away for 36 total.

The thing about charts like those is they are valid for 1 guy hired on a specific date. Once you start piling numbers on top of that guy the timeframe starts getting further out.

For instance, a pilot hired at Piedmont (the original one) in 1978 would upgrade in 3 years. One hired in 1984 to early 85 was still at a pretty good 5 years but anyone hired 86/87 bounced on that line of senior F.O./Junior Captain for over 20 years.

Never believe a chart like that. You must do the math for yourself based on your projected hire date and the project attrition for all of those in front of you.
Click to expand...

The chart is based off of a projected hire date of now, and the projected attrition for all those in front of you. Yes, in five years things will be different than they are now. Yes, nothing is guaranteed. Saying what the upgrade time is now has no bearing on what the upgrade time will be for a new hire, as you said.

None of these things are lies, they are just predictions based off of predicted attrition and minimum flow numbers.
 
FlyinSol0 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Envoy doesn’t advertise like that.

$22.1k sign on bonus unless you’re in the 175, then it’s $17.1k. First year pay is about $40/hr, so that’s $36K/yr base on reserve not including the bonus.

Second year you get a $2.5k bonus every quarter. That’s where they get the ~$60k first year and slight drop to ~$50k second year. None of these include perdiem, OT, holding a line about 75 hour guarantee etc, much less 401k contribution and whatnot.





The chart is based off of a projected hire date of now, and the projected attrition for all those in front of you. Yes, in five years things will be different than they are now. Yes, nothing is guaranteed. Saying what the upgrade time is now has no bearing on what the upgrade time will be for a new hire, as you said.

None of these things are lies, they are just predictions based off of predicted attrition and minimum flow numbers.
Click to expand...

Envoy may not advertise like that, but plenty of regionals that don't offer the kind of bonuses Envoy does have those kind of ads minus the @bimmerphile 's disclaimer. I believe I have seen one for my employer that does in fact boast of $75,000 first year compensation, which is woefully inaccurate unless you include all those things.
 
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Way too many variables to predict what you will be able to hold beyond the near future. I just completed my 737 CA upgrade training, and I'm very near the 10,500 mark on the list. I can only hold G4 fo in LGA/PHL/MIA. PHL 330 would be the best seniority for me, at 70%, MIA 777 I'm 90%, and LGA 777 95%. I'm near, or over 1,000 #'s away from G4 fo at all the other bases.

When I was over at the school house, I met a guy that has been a 737 ca for the last 18 years, he is going to 787 fo in LAX, and is in his mid/late 50's. I also know a 64 year old 777 fo who just bid 73 ca, so he can retire as a captain.

G3 (767) fo probably isn't worth the small raise, for the QOL hit from G2 (737/bus) fo, unless you live in base, and it's a dying bid status.

I also ran into a few Envoy instructors who said Envoy is going to start assigning junior fo's to ca seats, because they don't have enough people bidding ca.
 
nimslow said:
I also ran into a few Envoy instructors who said Envoy is going to start assigning junior fo's to ca seats, because they don't have enough people bidding ca.
Click to expand...

From what I gather lazily browsing the interwebs, they did say something that sounded like displacing the FO's that have the 1000 121 hrs and don't bid upgrade for the QoL into CA upgrade if there aren't enough voluntary takers. And yup, the idea is to go from the bottom up on the eligible FO list.
Weird times these.
 
I know I'm going to step on some toes of some dear friends, but some recruiters at the regional level will do what it takes to get you to sign on the dotted line. No, not all, but more than should be.
 
Derg said:
I know I'm going to step on some toes of some dear friends, but some recruiters at the regional level will do what it takes to get you to sign on the dotted line. No, not all, but more than should be.
Click to expand...

Step on toes, how so? That is common knowledge. I mean it's right up there with don't enlist in the Army on an open general contract.
 
Soku39 said:
Step on toes, how so? That is common knowledge. I mean it's right up there with don't enlist in the Army on an open general contract.
Click to expand...

I have some dear friends that are probably going to send me a terse text after they read this.
 
It's boom or bust and for most regionals today it is a boom in hiring. If you're young, why not sign the dotted line and go? Lets face it, one's not gonna go and be a regional lifer. Get in, get your time, upgrade, and get out to a legacy. All these figures and charts are simply trying to portray what the current industry is projected to look like, barring any 9/11 / Act of God / major recession / wars, etc.

I don't think Envoy is a bad place to go. Heck, just heard from a buddy who also started at a regional airline in 2007 he went to American Eagle (back when it was called that), is flowing to AA. 10 yrs is still not bad and still in his 30s.
 
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Derg said:
I know I'm going to step on some toes of some dear friends, but some recruiters at the regional level will do what it takes to get you to sign on the dotted line. No, not all, but more than should be.
Click to expand...

My interview to be a recruiter here got shut down real quickly when I was honest with my answers.
 
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Recruiters at Compass are putting hotel benefits as part of your salary now

I'm sure soon you'll be able to make 100,000 as a starting new hire FO after they include your flight benefits!!!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I don't think Envoy is a bad place to go. Heck, just heard from a buddy who also started at a regional airline in 2007 he went to American Eagle (back when it was called that), is flowing to AA. 10 yrs is still not bad and still in his 30s.
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Well I'm already passed 30s and probably still a year out from applying. Just looking to gather a much info as i can about those first couple of years are going to be like. Thanks for all the responses.
 
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