Medford NJ Helo Crash

But you've got two engines to do that stuff, right?? If not, jeez man, I hope you drink a lot.
Having a little experience maintaining some Eurocopter stuff a couple of decades ago, I'd rather send out a crew for that kind of work in an AS350B2 over an AS355. I'm not a helicopter pilot, and it's only my opinion, but I don't think that second engine is going to help that much. The additional weight of a combining gearbox and the second engine kind of negates the advantage of the second engine and adds more points of possible failure. I was never impressed with the Twinstars, a whole bunch of unnecessary monkey motion, again it's the opinion of a non helicopter pilot, mechanic who hasn't touched a helicopter in 20 years.
 
On September 8, 2017, about 1300 eastern daylight time, a Schweizer 269C-1 helicopter, N204HF, operated by Helicopter Flight Services, was substantially damaged during collision with terrain while performing a forced landing to Runway 01 at Flying W Airport (N14), Medford, New Jersey. The commercial pilot and passenger were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the personal flight which was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.

According to the chief flight instructor for the operator, the purpose of the flight was to provide an orientation/pleasure flight to the passenger who was scheduled to perform in a concert on the airport later that evening.

Several minutes after takeoff, the pilot reported over the airport UNICOM frequency that he was unable to control engine rpm with throttle inputs. He reported he could “roll” the twist-grip, but that there was no corresponding change in engine rpm when he did so.

The company flight instructor and another certificated helicopter flight instructor were monitoring the frequency and engaged the pilot in conversation about potential courses of action to affect the subsequent landing. Options discussed included a shallow approach to a run-on landing, or a power-off, autorotational descent to landing. The pilot elected to stop the engine and perform an autorotation, which was a familiar procedure he had performed numerous times in the past. Prior to entering the autorotation, the pilot was advised to initiate the maneuver over the runway.

The company flight instructor reported that the helicopter entered the autorotation about 950 ft above ground level, and that the helicopter was quiet during its descent “because the engine was off.” During the descent, the rotor rpm decayed to the point where the instructor could see the individual rotor blades. The helicopter descended from view prior to reaching the runway threshold and the sounds of impact were heard. Both instructors reported that a high-pitched “whine” could be heard from the helicopter during the latter portion of the descent.

A video forwarded by local police showed the helicopter south of the runway as it entered what appeared to be a descent profile consistent with an autorotation. Toward the end of the video, the descent profile became more vertical and the rate of descent increased before the helicopter descended out of view. No sound could be heard from the helicopter.

The pilot held commercial and instructor pilot certificates, each with ratings for rotorcraft-helicopter and instrument helicopter. His most recent Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) second-class medical certificate was issued April 12, 2017.

Excerpts of the pilot’s logbook revealed he had logged 480.9 total hours of flight experience. It was estimated that he had accrued over 300 total hours of flight experience in the accident helicopter make and model. The last entry logged was for 1.2 hours in the accident helicopter on the day of the accident.

The company training records indicated the pilot had received the training required by the operator for employment as a flight instructor, and his last airman competency check was completed satisfactorily on April 19, 2017 in the accident helicopter.

According to FAA records, the helicopter was manufactured in 2000 and had accrued approximately 7,900 total aircraft hours. Its most recent 100-hour inspection was completed August 17, 2017 at 7,884 total aircraft hours.

At 1254, the weather recorded at South Jersey Regional Airport (VAY), 2 miles west of N14, included clear skies and wind from 260° at 13 knots gusting to 18 knots. The temperature was 21°C, and the dew point was 9°C. The altimeter setting was 30.13 inches of mercury.

The wreckage was examined at the accident site, and all major components were accounted for at the scene. The initial ground scar was about 10 ft prior to the main wreckage, which was about 220 ft prior to the threshold of runway 01 and aligned with the runway.

The cockpit was significantly deformed by impact damage, and the tailboom was separated at the fuselage. The engine and main transmission remained mounted in the airframe, and all main rotor blades were secured in their respective grips, which remained attached to the main rotor head and mast. The pitch-change link for the yellow rotor blade was fractured, with fracture signatures consistent with overstress. Each of the three blades was bent significantly at its respective blade root. The blades showed little to no damage along their respective spans toward the blade tips, which was consistent with low rotor rpm at ground contact.

Flight control continuity was established from the individual flight controls, through breaks, to the main rotor head and tail rotor. Drivetrain continuity was also established to the main and tail rotors.

The engine was rotated by hand at the cooling fan, and continuity was confirmed from the powertrain through the valvetrain, to the accessory section. Compression was confirmed on all cylinders using the thumb method. The magnetos were removed, actuated with a drill, and spark was produced at all terminal leads. Borescope examination of each cylinder revealed signatures consistent with normal wear, with no anomalies noted.

The carburetor was separated from the engine, displayed impact damage, and was found near the initial ground scar. The throttle and mixture arms were actuated by hand and moved smoothly through their respective ranges. The filter screen was removed, and was absent of debris. The carburetor contained fuel which appeared absent of water and debris.

The collective control and jackshaft assembly as well as the associated throttle cable, push-pull tube, and bellcrank assemblies were retained for further examination at the NTSB Materials Laboratory.
 
Maybe he botched the auto, 13G18 is pretty good for some full down autos in a 269. Did they take the full down auto requirements out of the PTS/ACS whatever it is now?
 
But you've got two engines to do that stuff, right?? If not, jeez man, I hope you drink a lot.

2 engines really only saves you at cruise. In a hover very few conditions would allow for a single engine envelope. I can just do it in the 64E with about 40 minutes of gas at sea level. A 64D will overtorque and bleed rotor even if I could somehow fly 1000 lbs lighter than empty.

Above 40 knots below ~4K either can cruise comfortably single engine.

It's the region they call it the "avoid region" in the -10.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
But you've got two engines to do that stuff, right?? If not, jeez man, I hope you drink a lot.

Nope. AS350, single engine is what's assigned to that overnight flight. Hanging on that single engine to not so much as hiccup........
 
That's my nightly life, hovering inside high altitude canyons in the dark in order to provide light or lift for ground units on the peaks/saddles or cliff sides, but at about 100-200 AGL at 4000-7000 or so MSL. Knowing full well that if the engine were to crap out right then, that there's literally nowhere to go but down. Can attempt to make a 180 with the torque and head downhill to establish some forward velocity for a successful auto, but the chances of succeeding in doing that is nil to none. Just the hazard and risk that comes with needing to do that particular operation, in that particular area, at that particular time.
You know...I enjoy watching the little Robinsons do practice autos at the field here...it's a cool thing to observe. But I think it's often overlooking the risks you guys put yourselves in every day to do the very particular things helos can do. Mad respect for guys like you Mike that do that day in and day out while the rest of us complain about having to shoot an approach.
 
Having a little experience maintaining some Eurocopter stuff a couple of decades ago, I'd rather send out a crew for that kind of work in an AS350B2 over an AS355. I'm not a helicopter pilot, and it's only my opinion, but I don't think that second engine is going to help that much. The additional weight of a combining gearbox and the second engine kind of negates the advantage of the second engine and adds more points of possible failure. I was never impressed with the Twinstars, a whole bunch of unnecessary monkey motion, again it's the opinion of a non helicopter pilot, mechanic who hasn't touched a helicopter in 20 years.

As Lawman talked about, two engines will likely not do much for you in an OGE hover, especially hot and high like I'm doing, in terms of maintaining that hover....say for a hoist operation or something like that. But the one thing it may do, is possibly give me some downhill flyaway escape possibility to get to a lower elevation and allow a cushioned landing at some place at the bottom of the mountain; or if lightweight enough at the time maybe the possibility of limping to a good landing sopt. Whether there will be a useable LZ down at the bottom of the mountain if sustained flight isn't possible and at the site that the single engine allows me to get to, will now be the question. So possibly, the difference between impacting the cliff side at the top of the mountain vs ending up at a crappy level landing site at the bottom. Getting shot in the head vs getting stabbed in the gut.
 
You know...I enjoy watching the little Robinsons do practice autos at the field here...it's a cool thing to observe. But I think it's often overlooking the risks you guys put yourselves in every day to do the very particular things helos can do. Mad respect for guys like you Mike that do that day in and day out while the rest of us complain about having to shoot an approach.

Some helo ops can indeed get dicey. Take some that look fairly benign for example: helicopter long-line logging operations in the forest. Seems easy enough......pick up a load of logs from point A and move them to point B a little ways away. What the layperson doesn't see, is all that constant hovering and slow flight with the long-line, carrying all that weight.....that tail rotor is constantly under stress of having to provide anti-torque against the main rotor of those helos. It's not like the helicopter gets a lot of forward flight time above ~20 knots where the tail rotor has to do less work because the relative wind provides some streamlining of the tail as well as makes the main rotor more efficient, thus allowing less power to be used......essentially flying like an airplane. In a constant hover like logging helos do, that tail rotor and associated gearbox never really gets time to rest. Hence why there have been many accidents of logging helos where they're in a hover, and all of a sudden the tail rotor gearbox seizes or breaks, the helicopter enters a spin, the pilot attempts to control the spin by entering autorotation.....but as we've noted here already, trying to hover auto from on high is dicey enough with a normally operating tail rotor; so a crash is 99.999% guaranteed here, often with fatal results. The pilot who starred in the TV show "Ax Men", died in 2013 from this very thing when the tailboom separated from his UH-1B Huey in Oregon while lifting a load of logs.

Then come the real ops that are dicey: the mountain crap I'm doing at night. Doing hoist rescues from a ship at night......attempting to hover without hovering aids like a hold device, over a ship swaying back and forth underneath you, with say clouds and no moon so that vision under NVGs or not looks like the same dark hole. And the swaying ship below you is causing severe spatial disorientation as you try to maintain a hover reference. Or ops like trying to get to an area to do rescue work like occurred just a few weeks ago in Houston.....having to be between the WX and the ground, putting along at 20-30 knots, trying not to smack into the ground in the rain/fog/spray or worse, trying to not hit the numerous radio towers and their supporting guy wires that are looming in the fog/mist somewhere and waiting for you to wander into them. Or firefighting operations.....working a bambi bucket into fires in canyons and the like, against all kinds of fire-created turbulence and smoke, trying to support ground firefighters beneath. Or landing on a small ship's flight deck in crap WX and sea state. All kinds of ops like this that you're one engine hiccup, or one moment of inattention, or one piece of something of the many things that can break on a helo, away from being a statistic yourself. And these are ops under exigent circumstances......where they're just basic risks of the job you have to do. Unlike other ops in a helo that you could just turn down the mission or wait the next day or so.
 
Last edited:
As Lawman talked about, two engines will likely not do much for you in an OGE hover, especially hot and high like I'm doing, in terms of maintaining that hover....say for a hoist operation or something like that. But the one thing it may do, is possibly give me some downhill flyaway escape possibility to get to a lower elevation and allow a cushioned landing at some place at the bottom of the mountain; or if lightweight enough at the time maybe the possibility of limping to a good landing sopt. Whether there will be a useable LZ down at the bottom of the mountain if sustained flight isn't possible and at the site that the single engine allows me to get to, will now be the question. So possibly, the difference between impacting the cliff side at the top of the mountain vs ending up at a crappy level landing site at the bottom. Getting shot in the head vs getting stabbed in the gut.


So twins ARE safer. :stir:

The last single that had an engine failure/fatality that I can think of was EagleMed in OKC. Not the guy chasing coyotes, but the one a few years later who lost the engine a few minutes after leaving the hospital. Wasn't there an ENG AStar in the NW a few years back? I just remembered the video of the AStar (again) doing ENG in NYC, but I think the pilot survived. @MikeD can you think of other examples of single turbine having an engine failure?

The others are IIMC/CFIT, icing, wires, some other mechanical failure, or exceeding performance limitations. In other words, another engine probably wouldn't have helped.

EDIT: the NYC accident was hydraulics failure.
 
Last edited:
@JeppUpdater

Love the spray smacking the windshield just near to trying to touch down. Along with the pitching/rolling deck.



It's weird meeting 60 guys from Navy/Army and having one group terrified of deck ops but comfortable with dust landings and the other group the polar opposite.

It's one of the reasons I really wish the Army did a better job with exchange tours.

For that matter I think we should have guys jump communities within the Army just to see how others do things and bring their skill sets to other people. Let a mid grade dustoff guy come fly with us for a while and we can send somebody to do heavy lift ops or something. It would be good for us, but it doesn't happen.
 
So twins ARE safer. :stir:

The last single that had an engine failure/fatality that I can think of was EagleMed in OKC. Not the guy chasing coyotes, but the one a few years later who lost the engine a few minutes after leaving the hospital. Wasn't there an ENG AStar in the NW a few years back? I just remembered the video of the AStar (again) doing ENG in NYC, but I think the pilot survived. @MikeD can you think of other examples of single turbine having an engine failure?

The others are IIMC/CFIT, icing, wires, some other mechanical failure, or exceeding performance limitations.

I can tell you having operated with single engine helos in my Army experience if I had some of my problems in a Kiowa I would have at best crashed/been shot down and been waiting to be recovered.

That said, I wasn't afraid to fly single engine for an hour across the desert with a 3% power margin between what it took to stay airborne and my max available power. If I'd been single engine I wouldn't have gotten the option. Up in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan... wouldn't make a difference 1 or 2 or even 3 in the case of the 53E's and Merlins flying around, if you lost an engine you were doing a power on auto instead of a power off. That's all dual engine bought me.
 
The numbers for my bird, around 100F about 1000'msl:

Close to near max weight, I need 35-40 knots of wind velocity, to maintain a single engine hover. Correspondenly, I need that forward airspeed, should I be in a hover when the engine fails. This is InGroundEffect no less.

The last few engine failures my community has had, is generally during start up, or FOD related.

@Lawman, we were hanging out with CSAR dudes a few night ago. Just Bsing over the campfire; we reallly should have intra-service tours. I'm terrified of goggle dust landings with 0 illum. Those guys, have a different setup where they follow cues and make it easy. Pretty much a none event for them.

Haven't done deck quals, but I imagine it'll be challenging with a dark, pitching deck.
 
The numbers for my bird, around 100F about 1000'msl:

Close to near max weight, I need 35-40 knots of wind velocity, to maintain a single engine hover. Correspondenly, I need that forward airspeed, should I be in a hover when the engine fails. This is InGroundEffect no less.

The last few engine failures my community has had, is generally during start up, or FOD related.

@Lawman, we were hanging out with CSAR dudes a few night ago. Just Bsing over the campfire; we reallly should have intra-service tours. I'm terrified of goggle dust landings with 0 illum. Those guys, have a different setup where they follow cues and make it easy. Pretty much a none event for them.

Haven't done deck quals, but I imagine it'll be challenging with a dark, pitching deck.

We were doing medevac back in '12 because Dustoff wouldn't fly at night under a certain illum level. This was before their FLIR they installed on them.

The hover cues on the HDD are nice, but taking it right to the ground with those is still a bit dicey......easier than going pure Mk1 eyeball, but far from easy....lots of ways to muck it up still. I believe the 160th has the same setup as ours.
 
We were doing medevac back in '12 because Dustoff wouldn't fly at night under a certain illum level. This was before their FLIR they installed on them.

The hover cues on the HDD are nice, but taking it right to the ground with those is still a bit dicey......easier than going pure Mk1 eyeball, but far from easy....lots of ways to muck it up still. I believe the 160th has the same setup as ours.

Yeah a couple 160th guys I talked too couldn't believe the conventional Army didn't have some of their equipment.

It's funny because the price we paid rolling a 60M in the dirt at NTC would have paid to put that equipment on every Hawk in my brigade.... short term financial planning.
 
Funny story, I went to flight school with that PI. Had no idea, until we talked about that particular accident in a safety stand down.

Army aviation is stuck in 1965. Simply because the guys before did it, so we should too.

We rely a lot on mk1 eyeball. Demand currency, but not proficiency.
 
As Lawman talked about, two engines will likely not do much for you in an OGE hover, especially hot and high like I'm doing, in terms of maintaining that hover....say for a hoist operation or something like that. But the one thing it may do, is possibly give me some downhill flyaway escape possibility to get to a lower elevation and allow a cushioned landing at some place at the bottom of the mountain; or if lightweight enough at the time maybe the possibility of limping to a good landing sopt. Whether there will be a useable LZ down at the bottom of the mountain if sustained flight isn't possible and at the site that the single engine allows me to get to, will now be the question. So possibly, the difference between impacting the cliff side at the top of the mountain vs ending up at a crappy level landing site at the bottom. Getting shot in the head vs getting stabbed in the gut.
That's great, so even if you did have two engines, it'd be like you're out there saving lives in a friggin Apache.
God bless ya!
Eye opening explanation from you guys. Very interesting stuff.
I used to think helicopter pilots where crazy, now I know helicopter pilots are crazy...;)
 
Back
Top