horrific storms

[BlueMoon]

Someone has to be the first to say no, it happens. ATC says we can't go the direction we want, we pick a new direction or turn around. Really isn't a big deal, it was probably the guys last leg and he had a commute to catch. Been there done that, it is frustrating, but that's life.

 

[mikecweb]

Per everything we are taught, when it comes to wx our radar is more accurate (and broader picture) than yours. Having never seen a aircrafts weather radar, I can't say if that's true or not

You should ride up front on a summer afternoon.

 

[AAPalmTree]

All I know is ATC has always been more than accommodating to my needs. I know when they're squeezed and don't have as much flexibility but they always give me what we need.

 

[lightspeed]

NY Post doesn't even have the decency to give us a flight number?

 

[Finny]

@NovemberEcho, I'm about to be JFK based. Feel free to hop on my jumpseat anytime and I can show you the difference between eyedar vs radar vs controller reports. It's crazy how the 3 do not line up at all during certain conditions.

 

[lightspeed]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1997/history/20170822/2254Z/KORD/KEWR

"journalism"

 

[jtrain609]

Per everything we are taught, when it comes to wx our radar is more accurate (and broader picture) than yours. Having never seen a aircrafts weather radar, I can't say if that's true or not

Your radar doesn't always show you where the top of a build up is. I'm not flying through a build up that's at FL350 just because radar isn't painting it.

 

[RetiredATLATC]

Classic...early00's....took a dozen or so acft through a particular hole to get into the airport. A certain SouthernJet captain wanted to do everything different than everyone else. Every turn, descent, heading etc had to be opposite of what everyone else had done and eventually got himself stuck in a bad place where said controller eventually told said SouthernJet pilot, on frequency, to go F himself ( over 45 days since, no tapes)

3 years later I, no wait "said controller", was an add on to a 2some in Hilton Head for a round of golf. 3rd hole conversation started with....."your voice sounds familiar, what do you do for a living".

 

[Cptnchia]

I listened to a controller last month about "everyone's going through, no problems."

Everything was fine until we hit the severe turbulence. Controller didn't sound too happy when we gave the PIREP and closed the only hole.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Ok. So he didn't want to fly through the gap. No problem. But don't cop an attitude with me for saying you can't go the way you want to go either. And no, it wasn't his attitude that made me turn him around and not let anyone else through.

Sorry. I get you have a stressful job, but if my choices are to go through something I don’t deem safe or inconvenience you, prepare to be inconvenienced. First I’ll ask, then I’ll try to reason, after that I’m telling you where we are going. We can deal with the rest after we get on the ground without looking like a golfball/delta747.

 

[bimmerphile]

@NovemberEcho, I'm about to be JFK based. Feel free to hop on my jumpseat anytime and I can show you the difference between eyedar vs radar vs controller reports. It's crazy how the 3 do not line up at all during certain conditions.

you upgrayed?

I'd take @NovemberEcho in the Dash before we park them, but the honeywell/Fisher Price My First Radar doesn't inspire much confidence

 

[MikeD]

Sorry. I get you have a stressful job, but if my choices are to go through something I don’t deem safe or inconvenience you, prepare to be inconvenienced. First I’ll ask, then I’ll try to reason, after that I’m telling you where we are going. We can deal with the rest after we get on the ground without looking like a golfball/delta747.

It's a tough call on both ends, especially in the busy terminal areas. While the controller doesn't know the specifics of the weather a crew is seeing, an aircrew has no awareness of the number and location of traffic being worked by the controller. Good communication can normally alleviate this. A controller sending a crew towards someplace they aren't wanting to stick their nose into, can be just as bad as a crew taking a heading and altitude of their choosing on their own, and creating a near-midair or worse.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

It's a tough call on both ends, especially in the terminal areas. While the controller doesn't know the specifics of the weather a crew is seeing, an aircrew has no awareness of the number and location of traffic being worked by the controller. Good communication can normally alleviate this. A controller sending a crew towards someplace they aren't wanting to stick their nose into, can be just as bad as a crew taking a heading and altitude of their choosing on their own, and creating a near-midair or worse.

Without TCAS I’d agree with you, but I’d say we at least have a decent grip on what is going on. I think most of the issue we are habing with this discussion is the idea on both sides that it’s us vs. them instead of working together to deal with this. To me, turning around the way we came is a perfectly valid option when the only other option would be to get closer to weather than I’m comfortable. Definitely no reason for an attitude from anyone, just work together to solve a problem.

But I’ve had this situation over India. We had a refusal for a requested heading and then the frequency got stupid busy and we got a word in. We definitely weren’t going through the storm that was 45,000 ft tall, so we turned where we needed to and sorted it out later.

 

[mikecweb]

Any pilot that isn't willing to tell a controller no, shouldn't be a pilot.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Any pilot that isn't willing to tell a controller no, shouldn't be a pilot.

Says the guy who got me struck by lightning.

 

[mikecweb]

Says the guy who got me struck by lightning.

You know you wouldn't want anyone else to be your first.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

You know you wouldn't want anyone else to be your first.

Thankfully it was already SUPER bright in the cockpit so it didn’t hurt my eyes.

 

[Adler]

Says the guy who got me struck by lightning.

You know you wouldn't want anyone else to be your first.

Just the tip?

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Just the tip?

Was there more?

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Very good chance. Which is why when he said he wasn't going that way initially, I gave him the info I had (VMC reports) when he still said he wasn't going that way, I didn't "make" him go that way. I found another option, which unfortunately had to be to turn around. We already had the EWR arrivals from ZDC being fed over RBV instead of the normal arrival route. I had no room for maneuver. It was either go through the gap, or turn around. It wasn't his refusal to fly through the gap that's my bone to pick with him. It's him having attitude with me.

I've noticed this on more than one post of yours, not only are you wrong and not only are you on the wrong forum for your complaint but I've noticed your maturity level is pretty low as well.

I've said this once and I'll say it again. You work for us and not vice versa. Sorry if that comes off harsh. But it's the truth.

Enjoy your fat paycheck and sleeping in your own bed every night. We'll enjoy making decisions that you won't get an explanation for.