horrific storms

NovemberEcho said:
I said I was taking him where everyone else went and reported VMC. He said no he was going this way. I said no he can't go that way. He said well that's the way he's going to go. I said no it's not and sent him back the way he came. So yeah, considering where he did want to go, id say I knew best.
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Is there any chance he was seeing something you didn't?
 
mikecweb said:
Is there any chance he was seeing something you didn't?
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Very good chance. Which is why when he said he wasn't going that way initially, I gave him the info I had (VMC reports) when he still said he wasn't going that way, I didn't "make" him go that way. I found another option, which unfortunately had to be to turn around. We already had the EWR arrivals from ZDC being fed over RBV instead of the normal arrival route. I had no room for maneuver. It was either go through the gap, or turn around. It wasn't his refusal to fly through the gap that's my bone to pick with him. It's him having attitude with me.
 
ian said:
clearly not. the scope knows best.
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Per everything we are taught, when it comes to wx our radar is more accurate (and broader picture) than yours. Having never seen a aircrafts weather radar, I can't say if that's true or not
 
NovemberEcho said:
Per everything we are taught, when it comes to wx our radar is more accurate (and broader picture) than yours. Having never seen a aircrafts weather radar, I can't say if that's true or not
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your weather radar is better than someone who is physically looking at a storm?

for far out stuff on the radar absolutely i agree with you. but when it comes time to pick through stuff, no way.
 
ian said:
your weather radar is better than someone who is physically looking at a storm?

for far out stuff on the radar absolutely i agree with you. but when it comes time to pick through stuff, no way.
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Can you explain to me how I'm in the wrong though? He didn't want to fly through there so he didn't fly through there.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Can you explain to me how I'm in the wrong though? He didn't want to fly through there so he didn't fly through there.
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because of what you said below.
NovemberEcho said:
No, because he didn't want to fly through the gap that I had taken everyone else through and the guy 10 miles in front of him was reporting VMC. Instead he demanded to fly 20 miles (over JFK) before turning north. I said no and if he didn't want to go the same way as everyone else reporting VMC he could go back to center and work out his divert.

Edit: I wasn't referring to the pilot in the article, rather the storms in the article in my original post
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ian said:
because of what you said below.
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How is that wrong? He had the option of going the same way as everyone before him, or turning around. He elected to be turned around. Would it have been any less hazardous to him cut through the middle of the JFK and LGA finals and departure corridors?
 
MikeFavinger said:
And this too.
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Of course I closed the door behind him. He wasn't willing to fly through, I wasn't taking the chance the next guy wouldn't either. We already had the EWR arrivals coming in way off the arrival route and cutting through 3 different sectors airspace to do it. This is NY, I don't have the airspace to maneuver all over the place.
 
had you just approached it as this guy sucks because he had an attitude when you wouldnt let him go where he wanted to....different story.
 
ian said:
because your follow up reasoning was because someone in front of him went through so he should too.
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that sounds like valid reasoning. If everyone is going through somewher saying VMC, and someone is in there that moment saying it's VMC, I'm going to assume it's good to go until someone says otherwise. That was the only way into EWR at tuat moment.
 
NovemberEcho said:
that sounds like valid reasoning. If everyone is going through somewher saying VMC, and someone is in there that moment saying it's VMC, I'm going to assume it's good to go until someone says otherwise. That was the only way into EWR at tuat moment.
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exactly. and he was the guy that said it was no longer good....then you say you have a bone to pick with him because he said that and everyone else should blame him because "it was good before"
 
NovemberEcho said:
Of course I closed the door behind him. He wasn't willing to fly through, I wasn't taking the chance the next guy wouldn't either. We already had the EWR arrivals coming in way off the arrival route and cutting through 3 different sectors airspace to do it. This is NY, I don't have the airspace to maneuver all over the place.
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I totally get that. But where you were in "the wrong" wasn't at your job, it was here. You had " a bone to pick" with a pilot who made a safety-based operational decision. You did your job without a doubt - you gave him options and advisories. He made the decision. No more reason for you to have a bone to pick with him than he should with you. You both were trying to do the right thing.
 
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ian said:
exactly. and he was the guy that said it was no longer good....then you say you have a bone to pick with him because he said that and everyone else should blame him because "it was good before"
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Ok, I rescind the part about everyone behind him being mad at him. That was thrown in for dramatic effect
 
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NovemberEcho said:
Per everything we are taught, when it comes to wx our radar is more accurate (and broader picture) than yours. Having never seen a aircrafts weather radar, I can't say if that's true or not
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Pretty much opposite to my understanding, broader picture sure, we get +/- 40 degrees of sweep but not more accurate. Plenty of times ATC has advised us of wx and we are staring at nothing.

Also, plenty of times the radar has painted nada and I still don't like what I see and choose to go around.
 
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