Delta and ASA

mastermags said:
I wouldn't consider that forcing. I think an SLI is out the window permanently at this point.
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From ALPA National yesterday:

ASA AND XJT MECS RESPOND TO CHANGES IN CAPACITY PURCHASE AGREEMENTS

Today, the ASA and ExpressJet MECs responded to changes to ExpressJet’s strategic plan announced by parent company SkyWest, Inc., that include a new capacity purchase agreement (CPA) with United Airlines (UAL), an expanded partnership with American Airlines (AA), and a complete drawdown of the capacity purchase agreement with Delta Air Lines.

“In the short term, this turn of events is clearly not the best-case scenario that any of us had hoped for,” said ASA MEC chairman Capt. Chromer Smith and XJT MEC chairman Capt. Dave Allen in a joint statement issued today. “The ASA and XJT MECs, however, are committed to working together to best protect our pilots’ careers as the company works to implement changes to ExpressJet’s strategic plan.”

The company’s announcement included the following details:

  • ExpressJet has signed a new, profitable five-year CPA with UAL to fly at least 126 aircraft.
  • The Delta CPA will end in November 2018. Eight CRJ700s will be placed on the AA CPA. The company is in talks with UAL regarding the remaining 22 CRJ700 aircraft.
  • ASA’s 28 CRJ900 aircraft will be returned to Delta, who owns the aircraft.
The two MECs have already taken steps to protect their pilots’ futures. Specifically, the MECs have entered into agreements with their respective management teams that enables pilots to move from one operation to the other through a recently completed integrated seniority list.

The two MEC chairmen added, “History will show this as a tale of two pilot groups; two pilot groups teetering on the brink of destruction. These two pilot groups, one of which is about to lose the majority of its flying, and the other without the ability to either attract or retain pilots, are both operated by a company that couldn’t make future plans because of the instability of the pilot labor supply. Our two pilot groups have now become life boats for each other. Lashed together, we will be a pilot force 2,600-strong operated by a company that now has the ability to look into the future to gain more flying for all of us."
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chrisreedrules said:
I've met those guys... Some people are so over-extended and living beyond their means that they literally don't have a viable way to take a pay cut even for a year. Others I've met saved for that first year well inadvamce and we're gone in a flash when they got the call!
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Well to be fair I know at least one mainline pilot that is broke / live paycheck to paycheck.

Cptnchia said:
Shoulda been there for the George and John show. THAT was a unified pilot group! I was ASA 1995-2001, :(
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Did you know the FO Steve Wardmeer (sp), that guy was bad ass. Lost most of his skin (literally) , couldn't fly in the sun, but still flew around for ASA as conditions allowed him. I read about him, sounded like a great survivor, strong fighter kinda guy.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I hope they're collectively in a bus accident on the way to some stupid retreat.
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Something like this? watch ;) Replace with "SKYWEST RULES! SKYWEST RULES!"

Yep, it's sad to see the ASA-Delta Connection branding get snuffed out along with the majority of the pilots and all the flight attendants. Although with the year after year news stream from management delivering nothing but bad news, anyone who is still on property today is beyond delusional and, frankly, had it coming.

Guess it's time for me to change my username. :oops:
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Well to be fair I know at least one mainline pilot that is broke / live paycheck to paycheck.



Did you know the FO Steve Wardmeer (sp), that guy was bad ass. Lost most of his skin (literally) , couldn't fly in the sun, but still flew around for ASA as conditions allowed him. I read about him, sounded like a great survivor, strong fighter kinda guy.
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You talking about Matt Warmerdam? He is a personal friend. We were CFIs together and he was a clsss ahead of me at ASA.
 
DeltaASA16 said:
Anyone who is still on property today is beyond delusional and, frankly, had it coming.
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I can't agree with this. Yeah, the people who were making no effort to leave were avoiding some pretty obvious signs, but I still know a lot of good people there that deserve to move on and have been making all the right moves but just haven't been given the chance.
 
DeltaASA16 said:
Although with the year after year news stream from management delivering nothing but bad news, anyone who is still on property today is beyond delusional and, frankly, had it coming.
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Screaming_Emu said:
I can't agree with this. Yeah, the people who were making no effort to leave were avoiding some pretty obvious signs, but I still know a lot of good people there that deserve to move on and have been making all the right moves but just haven't been given the chance.
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I agree. There are quite a few senior guys who, in the last two years, have reached out to me for LoRs and any help getting out.
 
Back in the day, I saw a lot of peeps in very, very complicated family and/or personal situations.

Some people just got tired of the waiting game that the industry was in, and went on with their lives. That usually gets complicated, which happens when you interact with other humans. It's true that our circumstances can be the sum of our choices, but not everyone can be a monk until the end game is done.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I can't agree with this....I still know a lot of good people there that deserve to move on and have been making all the right moves but just haven't been given the chance.
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Contrary to popular belief "making all the right moves" includes making the dreaded and highly unpopular lateral move. There hasn't been an absurd hiring frenzy of this proportion since before our careers began, so to say they "haven't been given the chance" is extremely ignorant.
 
DeltaASA16 said:
Contrary to popular belief "making all the right moves" includes making the dreaded and highly unpopular lateral move. There hasn't been an absurd hiring frenzy of this proportion since before our careers began, so to say they "haven't been given the chance" is extremely ignorant.
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I feel like a lot of guys have come into the industry in the last 5-10 years who have all the answers down. Everyone should just listen to them, they are trying to protect you.
 
DeltaASA16 said:
Contrary to popular belief "making all the right moves" includes making the dreaded and highly unpopular lateral move. There hasn't been an absurd hiring frenzy of this proportion since before our careers began, so to say they "haven't been given the chance" is extremely ignorant.
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A lateral move is always a gamble. How many times have users of this website posted "don't chase a quick upgrade?" Telling people whose airline is dying they should have gone to another regional is incredibly arrogant.
 
Up until now the info I've been given by delta a delta recruiter was "stay at ExpressJet. We really like high time FOs from there."

I have zero desire to wear that many buttons, but that was the guidance. I also know many people who have made the lateral move who are still slugging it out despite being great people who have the boxes checked.
 
roundout said:
A lateral move is always a gamble. How many times have users of this website posted "don't chase a quick upgrade?" Telling people whose airline is dying they should have gone to another regional is incredibly arrogant.
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Actually, this news could play to the benefit of lots of junior ASA pilots. Endeavor is tasked with producing 200+ captain eligible pilots in the next 12-18 months, ON TOP of their normal attrition. If they get over to Endeavor with their previous 121 time at ExpressJet, they'll likely slide into the left seat of a CRJ within a year on property. I could see this shake-up resulting in some very junior pilots being awarded CA at Endeavor. Sure these Ex-Expresjet pilots will have leapfrogged hundreds of senior FOs at Endeavor and their QOL will reflect this for some time. But, they'll be making captain pay which is 150% of what they were making at ASA as FOs and logging 121-PICTurbine time which can only help in their job search for their career airline. And let's be honest, it's not like they would have done better had ASA kept the CRJs for Delta.
 
DeltaASA16 said:
Actually, this news could play to the benefit of lots of junior ASA pilots. Endeavor is tasked with producing 200+ captain eligible pilots in the next 12-18 months, ON TOP of their normal attrition. If they get over to Endeavor with their previous 121 time at ExpressJet, they'll likely slide into the left seat of a CRJ within a year on property. I could see this shake-up resulting in some very junior pilots being awarded CA at Endeavor. Sure these Ex-Expresjet pilots will have leapfrogged hundreds of senior FOs at Endeavor and their QOL will reflect this for some time. But, they'll be making captain pay which is 150% of what they were making at ASA as FOs and logging 121-PICTurbine time which can only help in their job search for their career airline. And let's be honest, it's not like they would have done better had ASA kept the CRJs for Delta.
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That's all well and good, but consider that some of these folks have families and would have a lot riding on getting through a type rating and probationary year with no safety net. Hopping regional airlines is easier today than it's ever been, but that doesn't mean there's no risk in doing so.
 
roundout said:
That's all well and good, but consider that some of these folks have families and would have a lot riding on getting through a type rating and probationary year with no safety net. Hopping regional airlines is easier today than it's ever been, but that doesn't mean there's no risk in doing so.
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Yeah, not to mention the whole whipsaw thing is alive and well, despite the 'pilot shortage.'
 
DeltaASA16 said:
Actually, this news could play to the benefit of lots of junior ASA pilots. Endeavor is tasked with producing 200+ captain eligible pilots in the next 12-18 months, ON TOP of their normal attrition. If they get over to Endeavor with their previous 121 time at ExpressJet, they'll likely slide into the left seat of a CRJ within a year on property. I could see this shake-up resulting in some very junior pilots being awarded CA at Endeavor. Sure these Ex-Expresjet pilots will have leapfrogged hundreds of senior FOs at Endeavor and their QOL will reflect this for some time. But, they'll be making captain pay which is 150% of what they were making at ASA as FOs and logging 121-PICTurbine time which can only help in their job search for their career airline. And let's be honest, it's not like they would have done better had ASA kept the CRJs for Delta.
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That ship has sailed, IMO. Endeavor pilots hired in late 2015 to early 2016 are beginning to hit 1000 121 and company, which will negate anyone coming in without company time upgrading quickly. Those EV guys who bailed for 9E 6 months ago, however, will be in the quick upgrade boat.
 
roundout said:
That's all well and good, but consider that some of these folks have families and would have a lot riding on getting through a type rating and probationary year with no safety net. Hopping regional airlines is easier today than it's ever been, but that doesn't mean there's no risk in doing so.
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Sometimes you do what you gotta do. Uproot the family, tighten your financial belt and get busy earning a new type rating on new-hire probation.

And you're right. The pilot hiring market is the hottest it's been in a decade and the compensation packages offered at the winning regionals has never been matched in the history of the regionals.
 
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